The Religion Discussion Thread

[katarn]

God knowing the future has no bearing on your free will.

If he already knows what I’ll chose, then I never had a choice to begin with. Otherwise, it could not be known.

How does that work? I just don't see that conclusion. If you can't explain it and we just disagree, /point and continue with other avenues.

[katarn]

1) God knows every outcome therefore giving you some "test" means he gives a fuck how you will perform

Stopped right there

The first step is recognizing that you aren't God. When you catch yourself comparing how God works or what God does to what you think, you've got to stop and back up.

That's the mistake I see people make more than probably anything else. They say something like, "I wouldn't let kids die, but kids die, therefor there either isn't a god, or he's bad," and they completely miss the part where they equated themselves with the Creator of the universe, despite the fact that their perceived omniscience doesn't prevent them from stumping their toes on the furniture in the dark.

You're focussing on the nature of God. I'm focussing on what it is in humanity that drove us to create gods. Kids die or live because they're part of the natural world. The laws of the natural world rule as the framework for all life. Our attempt to cope with the harsh realities of the laws of the natural world drove us to create gods. They are literally our coping mechanism.

This is why, to me, the question of deities is more "is this still good for us?" Or "is there a better way to cope with our mortality?" or "is there a reality-based spiritual philosophy that can work for us?".

(added emphasis)

To the bold section: That makes a fair bit of sense, and it is what I would say about false religions, although I would probably add that the human soul feels spirituality inherently, and that contributed to the search for God.

To the last bit: I will repeat a call for reasoning for your assertion that religion is not a reality based system. Remember that to us, it is reality. There are arguments, which do you like?

[katarn]

Religious people pretend to want a discussion.
Are confronted with simple logic.
Claim superiority and stomp away.

/thread

Says the two going going around saying they created god.

The concept of a God, yes. Natural human reaction to the terror of uncertainty.

Growing up with strong, immortal, perfect parents, then losing that certainty with adolescence is a very frightening process. So, why not make up a bigger, invisible Daddy that will carry you through the world. Same reason we allow governments to control us, and tax us.

Lead me, Daddy. Just tell me what to do.

A nice rationalization of religion's existence from the starting bias of religion's falsity. Let's go to the real root of this system- what leads you to reject religion? What we're doing now is just offering views based on our biases and ot discussing those biases, which to me is kind of the point.

[Okeefenokee]

They're just gonna bash on Christians. It's what they do.

Don't you say anything about Islam, though. That makes you a bigot.

[SuburbanFarmer]

God knowing the future has no bearing on your free will.

If he already knows what I’ll chose, then I never had a choice to begin with. Otherwise, it could not be known.

How does that work? I just don't see that conclusion. If you can't explain it and we just disagree, /point and continue with other avenues.

It's very simple.

If I have free will, then any choice that I make cannot be predicted in advance by an outside power. If 7 billion of us have free will, then there is no conceivable way that anything is predictable in advance - at least not more than overall trends on the global scale.

The only way that outcomes can be predictable is without random factors.

[Speaker to Animals]

It doesn't follow. How does God's knowledge of what you will choose negate your free will?

God exists outside time. To him it's all one big thing. That doesn't mean you lost your free will.

One of the cool things about the books in the Bible is how it has a sort of time travel element where people got glimpses of the passion and resurrection, but nobody understood until after it happened. God the Father's grief at his son's death plays out in the sacrifice of Isaac. That book would be really confusing before the passion. Other scriptures talked of them killing the messenger and throwing dice for his garments. Then the apostles saw this happening. If you bother to read it with somebody explaining exegesis to you, it's actually quite strange how it all works out.

[TheReal_ND]

That's really retarded. So God is supposed to have known what you will choose already and that is what forced you to choose what you chose. WELL THIS FAGGOT KNEW I WOULD CHOOSE THIS GOD DAMNIT I HAD NO CHOICE!

Ho do you know that wasn't part of the plan? To see what you would choose, after he created the heavens and the earth?

Like *hits bong* what if he knew that his creatures would act a certain way. Like even knew how they would act, but gave them free will anyway. Just to see if they could break the system he created *slams dope*

Don't judge me. God knew I would slam that rig of meth into my spine. He clearly wanted me to do that. I had no choice.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Says the two going going around saying they created god.

The concept of a God, yes. Natural human reaction to the terror of uncertainty.

Growing up with strong, immortal, perfect parents, then losing that certainty with adolescence is a very frightening process. So, why not make up a bigger, invisible Daddy that will carry you through the world. Same reason we allow governments to control us, and tax us.

Lead me, Daddy. Just tell me what to do.

A nice rationalization of religion's existence from the starting bias of religion's falsity. Let's go to the real root of this system- what leads you to reject religion? What we're doing now is just offering views based on our biases and ot discussing those biases, which to me is kind of the point.

Fair question, though I'm confused why you would feel the need to ask.

Religion is nothing more than superstition to me. There is zero evidence or need for a deity to explain the universe that we observe. Every prediction made by the holy books has been false, and they fail to follow what we know of recorded history - even concurrent with the time of their writing. None of them mention dinosaurs, prehistoric life, or any knowledge outside of the tribal knowledge of the authors.

You could say that it doesn't hurt to believe anyway, and I would emphatically point out that they've been used as a control system by the elites throughout our history as a species, retarding scientific progress, and leading to uncountable suffering. Organized religion has been the bane of human existence for eons.

However, it's always important to note that I see this problem with organized religion. Personal spirituality is great, and people should be encouraged to believe in whatever comforts them, provided that it doesn't involve impinging on the rights of others.

[SuburbanFarmer]

That's really retarded. So God is supposed to have known what you will choose already and that is what forced you to choose what you chose. WELL THIS FAGGOT KNEW I WOULD CHOOSE THIS GOD DAMNIT I HAD NO CHOICE!

Ho do you know that wasn't part of the plan? To see what you would choose, after he created the heavens and the earth?

If he's 'seeing what I'll choose', then he cannot predict or know the future. Therefore, take Revelations and all other predictions right out of play.

[SuburbanFarmer]

It doesn't follow. How does God's knowledge of what you will choose negate your free will?

If he already knows what I'll choose, then how can I be responsible for that choice, and punished for it? That would take a truly sadistic being to set billions of his creations up for failure intentionally.