The Armory - Guns, Knives, and Axes

[TheReal_ND]

Please please prime directive Africa

[C-Mag]

Don't forget the Prime Directive.

We need to do some American Nation Building and fix our own house before we run around the globe and try to fix everyone else.

[heydaralon]

Pro tip; the failure of the Iraq War, and in fact all American interventions, is entirely due to the fact, that you Americans refuse to do things as the British did, you don't look like you're in charge, you don't act like you're in charge, you bloody well come out and just tell them; "we're not in charge"; big mistake, if you're going to be Imperialists, there's only one way to pull it off; razzle and dazzle, look like you're in charge, act like you're in charge, at all times, and they will believe that you are in fact in charge. For awhile at least, eventually they will mutiny, but if you keep up appearances, you can stave that off for literally decades.

There's only one American I can think of, who was ever really good at it; Douglas MacArthur, terrible General, but a great Imperialist.

Why aren't you a fan of MacArthur the general? Between the Inchon assault and wanting to nuke Korea, this guy seems right up your alley Smitty.

[Smitty-48]

Pro tip; the failure of the Iraq War, and in fact all American interventions, is entirely due to the fact, that you Americans refuse to do things as the British did, you don't look like you're in charge, you don't act like you're in charge, you bloody well come out and just tell them; "we're not in charge"; big mistake, if you're going to be Imperialists, there's only one way to pull it off; razzle and dazzle, look like you're in charge, act like you're in charge, at all times, and they will believe that you are in fact in charge. For awhile at least, eventually they will mutiny, but if you keep up appearances, you can stave that off for literally decades.

There's only one American I can think of, who was ever really good at it; Douglas MacArthur, terrible General, but a great Imperialist.

Why aren't you a fan of MacArthur the general? Between the Inchon assault and wanting to nuke Korea, this guy seems right up your alley Smitty.

Oh, no, I'm a Patton guy, MacArthur was a fop. Inchon was a no brainer, and nuking Korea wouldn't have worked, they were already bombing it into the stone age. Ridgeway had to come in and clean up MacArthur's mess.

MacArthur practically snatched defeat from the jaws of victory, then he went mental and had to be fired.

He was a good parade square soldier though, I master of maintaining the facade, like a British Viceroy in the Raj, the perfect guy to conduct an Imperial occupation, see; Japan.

When you're actually in the fight, that's where you need your professionals, like Eisenhower, and Nimitz, and your gunfighters, like Patton, and Ridgeway, after you've already won the war and need to occupy, that's where you bring in a MacArthur to pacify the Raj.

MacArthur was neither professional nor gunfighter, he was a pure media General, you don't bring those guys in to conduct the oprations, you only bring those guys in, to maintain a facade.

It's like in Iraq with Schwartzkopf, Schwartzkopf was a pure media General, he put up a facade, but behind the scenes, operationally, he was an idiot, should have put Fred Franks in command, then you would have destroyed the Republican Guard instead of letting them escape, you only bring a Schwartzkopf in later, to be Viceroy, instead of L. Paul Bremmer.

I'm not saying media General's aren't usefull, they are, that's a skill unto itself, and often the gunfighters are not so good at handling the media, you don't let Patton have a press conference, because he's gonna say something crazy, you just keep Patton at the front, running the operations, but the last thing you want to do, is let the pure media General have a direct phone line to Patton telling him how to sucks eggs every five minutes, let Fred Franks do the job, Schwartzkopf can take credit for it, but don't let him actually try to run the battle, with a thousand mile screwdriver from his bunker in the rear.

MacArthur ordered an envelopment at Inchon, big whoop, that's basic stuff, any first year West Point cadet would tell you do to that, that's not anymore ingenious than Schwartzkopf and his "Left Hook!", a left flanking? Yeah, OK, thanks, Napoleon, we never would have thought of that, but because they were pure media General's, both MacArthur, and Schwartzkopf, then when on to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, MacArthur because he was so arrogant, and Schwartzkopf because he was such a chickenshit.

After MacArthur screws the pooch, oh, yeah, now he wants the nukes, because after he shit the bed, he was out of ideas, basically went to the President and said "I'll need those nukes to start World War Three by the way, now that I've made a mess of things, the only thing we can do is double down to the brink of total war", at which point Truman was like "Oh FFS, this guy is a total mental case".

Who gets America out of the jam? Hup; Eisenhower, the professional, and Ridgeway, the gunfighter.

[The Conservative]

Pro tip; the failure of the Iraq War, and in fact all American interventions, is entirely due to the fact, that you Americans refuse to do things as the British did, you don't look like you're in charge, you don't act like you're in charge, you bloody well come out and just tell them; "we're not in charge"; big mistake, if you're going to be Imperialists, there's only one way to pull it off; razzle and dazzle, look like you're in charge, act like you're in charge, at all times, and they will believe that you are in fact in charge. For awhile at least, eventually they will mutiny, but if you keep up appearances, you can stave that off for literally decades.

There's only one American I can think of, who was ever really good at it; Douglas MacArthur, terrible General, but a great Imperialist.

Why aren't you a fan of MacArthur the general? Between the Inchon assault and wanting to nuke Korea, this guy seems right up your alley Smitty.

Oh, no, I'm a Patton guy, MacArthur was a fop. Inchon was a no brainer, and nuking Korea wouldn't have worked, they were already bombing it into the stone age. Ridgeway had to come in and clean up MacArthur's mess.

MacArthur practically snatched defeat from the jaws of victory, then he went mental and had to be fired.

He was a good parade square soldier though, I master of maintaining the facade, like a British Viceroy in the Raj, the perfect guy to conduct an Imperial occupation, see; Japan.

When you're actually in the fight, that's where you need your professionals, like Eisenhower, and Nimitz, and your gunfighters, like Patton, and Ridgeway, after you've already won the war and need to occupy, that's where you bring in a MacArthur to pacify the Raj.

MacArthur was neither professional nor gunfighter, he was a pure media General, you don't bring those guys in to conduct the oprations, you only bring those guys in, to maintain a facade.

It's like in Iraq with Schwartzkopf, Schwartzkopf was a pure media General, he put up a facade, but behind the scenes, operationally, he was an idiot, should have put Fred Franks in command, then you would have destroyed the Republican Guard instead of letting them escape, you only bring a Schwartzkopf in later, to be Viceroy, instead of L. Paul Bremmer.

I'm not saying media General's aren't usefull, they are, that's a skill unto itself, and often the gunfighters are not so good at handling the media, you don't let Patton have a press conference, because he's gonna say something crazy, you just keep Patton at the front, running the operations, but the last thing you want to do, is let the pure media General have a direct phone line to Patton telling him how to sucks eggs every five minutes, let Fred Franks do the job, Schwartzkopf can take credit for it, but don't let him actually try to run the battle, with a thousand mile screwdriver from his bunker in the rear.

MacArthur ordered an envelopment at Inchon, big whoop, that's basic stuff, any first year West Point cadet would tell you do to that, that's not anymore ingenious than Schwartzkopf and his "Left Hook!", a left flanking? Yeah, OK, thanks, Napoleon, we never would have thought of that, but because they were pure media General's, both MacArthur, and Schwartzkopf, then when on to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, MacArthur because he was so arrogant, and Schwartzkopf because he was such a chickenshit.

After MacArthur screws the pooch, oh, yeah, now he wants the nukes, because after he shit the bed, he was out of ideas, basically went to the President and said "I'll need those nukes to start World War Three by the way, now that I've made a mess of things, the only thing we can do is double down to the brink of total war", at which point Truman was like "Oh FFS, this guy is a total mental case".

Who gets America out of the jam? Hup; Eisenhower, the professional, and Ridgeway, the gunfighter.

Patton was an amazing general, the thing about him though is you didn't put him in front of the press corps because he would not sugar coat anything. People also respected him for what he was able to do.

If you're a leader, you don't push wet spaghetti, you pull it. The U.S. Army still has to learn that. The British understand it. Patton understood it. I always admired Patton. Oh, sure, the stupid bastard was crazy. He was insane. He thought he was living in the Dark Ages. Soldiers were peasants to him. I didn't like that attitude, but I certainly respected his theories and the techniques he used to get his men out of their foxholes.
Bill Mauldin, in The Brass Ring (1971)

The closest general we have today that could get his troops to do what Patton did is Mattis. Patton though is one of those bastards you had to respect on the field, and fear what he'd say off of it.

[Smitty-48]

Trump has actually picked three of the best Generals America has, Mattis, McMaster and Kelly, hybrids; operationally competent, but also media savvy, whether or not he listens to them is another story, but those three about as good as it gets right now, in terms of best of both worlds.

[TheReal_ND]

"We defeated the wrong enemy." George S. Patton, 1945.

[heydaralon]

Did you guys ever watch the movie Patton with George C Scott? Its a great goddamn movie.

[heydaralon]

Pro tip; the failure of the Iraq War, and in fact all American interventions, is entirely due to the fact, that you Americans refuse to do things as the British did, you don't look like you're in charge, you don't act like you're in charge, you bloody well come out and just tell them; "we're not in charge"; big mistake, if you're going to be Imperialists, there's only one way to pull it off; razzle and dazzle, look like you're in charge, act like you're in charge, at all times, and they will believe that you are in fact in charge. For awhile at least, eventually they will mutiny, but if you keep up appearances, you can stave that off for literally decades.

There's only one American I can think of, who was ever really good at it; Douglas MacArthur, terrible General, but a great Imperialist.

Why aren't you a fan of MacArthur the general? Between the Inchon assault and wanting to nuke Korea, this guy seems right up your alley Smitty.

Oh, no, I'm a Patton guy, MacArthur was a fop. Inchon was a no brainer, and nuking Korea wouldn't have worked, they were already bombing it into the stone age. Ridgeway had to come in and clean up MacArthur's mess.

MacArthur practically snatched defeat from the jaws of victory, then he went mental and had to be fired.

He was a good parade square soldier though, I master of maintaining the facade, like a British Viceroy in the Raj, the perfect guy to conduct an Imperial occupation, see; Japan.

When you're actually in the fight, that's where you need your professionals, like Eisenhower, and Nimitz, and your gunfighters, like Patton, and Ridgeway, after you've already won the war and need to occupy, that's where you bring in a MacArthur to pacify the Raj.

MacArthur was neither professional nor gunfighter, he was a pure media General, you don't bring those guys in to conduct the oprations, you only bring those guys in, to maintain a facade.

It's like in Iraq with Schwartzkopf, Schwartzkopf was a pure media General, he put up a facade, but behind the scenes, operationally, he was an idiot, should have put Fred Franks in command, then you would have destroyed the Republican Guard instead of letting them escape, you only bring a Schwartzkopf in later, to be Viceroy, instead of L. Paul Bremmer.

I'm not saying media General's aren't usefull, they are, that's a skill unto itself, and often the gunfighters are not so good at handling the media, you don't let Patton have a press conference, because he's gonna say something crazy, you just keep Patton at the front, running the operations, but the last thing you want to do, is let the pure media General have a direct phone line to Patton telling him how to sucks eggs every five minutes, let Fred Franks do the job, Schwartzkopf can take credit for it, but don't let him actually try to run the battle, with a thousand mile screwdriver from his bunker in the rear.

MacArthur ordered an envelopment at Inchon, big whoop, that's basic stuff, any first year West Point cadet would tell you do to that, that's not anymore ingenious than Schwartzkopf and his "Left Hook!", a left flanking? Yeah, OK, thanks, Napoleon, we never would have thought of that, but because they were pure media General's, both MacArthur, and Schwartzkopf, then when on to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, MacArthur because he was so arrogant, and Schwartzkopf because he was such a chickenshit.

After MacArthur screws the pooch, oh, yeah, now he wants the nukes, because after he shit the bed, he was out of ideas, basically went to the President and said "I'll need those nukes to start World War Three by the way, now that I've made a mess of things, the only thing we can do is double down to the brink of total war", at which point Truman was like "Oh FFS, this guy is a total mental case".

Who gets America out of the jam? Hup; Eisenhower, the professional, and Ridgeway, the gunfighter.

I read that Hanson book, The Soul of Battle and he talks about Patton's speed. Apparently, the Nazis viewed Patton as the best American general. I've also read historians who view him as overrated. How does Patton stack up against Bradley and Montgomery? Was he better than Rommel or Zhukov?

[Smitty-48]

He was like Rommel, that's why the Nazis viewed him as their nemesis, Bradley was a good administrator, but he was timid, didn't have the audacity, wasn't agressive, Montgomery was a plodder, he could win, but he needed overwhelming superiority, Zhukov was a butcher, a Montgomery, but without the humanity.

Rommel, Patton; audacious, agressive, dancers, stick and weave, float like a butterfly sting like a bee, that's what set them apart from the plodders, butchers, and administrators.

I mean, it was an industrial war of attrition, an ocean of plodders, butchers, and administrators, set piece slugfest after set piece slugfest, just pile resources up and then feed them into the meat grinder, and then there was Rommel and Patton, never stop moving, never let the enemy get his footing, punch him in the face, then keep on dancing and punching, never sit there and just get into a slugfest, rope a' dope if you have to, but when you come off them ropes; "Ali, bomayae".