Maybe it's not Capitalism or Liberalism

[heydaralon]

Scott Peterson has some good podcasts too. He has some interesting arguments about boating and weighing down stuff +disguises and escape plans.

[DrYouth]

One more:

This one wasn't as enlightening.
Sure the empathy on each side is drawn toward their in-group and the groups that the in-group champions.

Jonathan Haidt covers this in his great book The Righteous Mind.

Liberals champion perceived victim groups and Conservatives champion the dominant culture and those that uphold it, police, veterans etc.

Empathy for the preferred groups drives both sides.

[heydaralon]

One more:

This one wasn't as enlightening.
Sure the empathy on each side is drawn toward their in-group and the groups that the in-group champions.

Jonathan Haidt covers this in his great book The Righteous Mind.

Liberals champion perceived victim groups and Conservatives champion the dominant culture and those that uphold it, police, veterans etc.

Empathy for the preferred groups drives both sides.

Youth, this is a great article that discusses some of the culture wars you are talking about. I think you would enjoy it.
https://www.newstatesman.com/culture/bo ... s-own-past

[DrYouth]

Youth, this is a great article that discusses some of the culture wars you are talking about. I think you would enjoy it.
https://www.newstatesman.com/culture/bo ... s-own-past

Good article Daralon.
Lots to chew on in there.
I agree that the West has become a series of revolutions against it's own roots.

Christianity was a repudiation of roman (pagan) and jewish culture...
The Reformation a repudiation of Catholicism...
The French Revolution was a repudiation of Feudalism and Catholicism...
The American Revolution was a repudiation of Monarchy and British Imperialism.
Western Liberalism is now a repudiation of every form of perceived Colonialism, Patriarchy or Power Hierarchy of all sorts except for the ascendant power of the Liberal Ideal itself.

It's more than a bit exhausting and leaves little room for the culture of any but the most disenfranchised groups... culture that we must be very careful not to appropriate.

[Speaker to Animals]

I would start with the Reformation. The common theme here is the source of authority, or really, the rejection of authority altogether. That begins with the Reformation.

Reformation: Spiritual authority comes from the national church, which is run by the monarchy and not really the bishops. This quickly becomes that spiritual authority rests in the community (Puritanism), which then progresses to spiritual authority resting in the individual (Evangelicalism, Baptists, etc.).

Enlightenment: political authority rests in the people rather than in a monarchy. Spiritual authority is made nonexistent or marginalized by granting the secular state powers to seize the Church's social duties. Political authority is granted at first only to a few but is increasingly spread to everybody, regardless of how unqualified they are to exercise such power.

Marxism: political authority rests in the ideology alone. Today, you will see SJWs rejecting even their own individual authority over anything and putting their faith in the ideology alone.

If you really study the history of philosophy and western civilization, you will find that Christianity was almost a fulfillment of where the pagans were going anyway. They had rejected pagan gods for the most part as they became more educated and grew in understanding of the world. They replaced the gods with philosophy. Philosophers were getting right up to the brink of what would become Christian doctrine in the axial age. We often say Christ was a fulfillment of the Jewish Law, but he also was a fulfillment of Greek philosophy. It's right there in page one of John's Gospel. Christ *is* the Logos.

The stuff that happened since the Reformation has all been about authority. That's why our civilization is disintegrating. That's the heart of it. Who possesses authority over the human family? Who possesses authority over spiritual matters? Who possesses authority over the secular state? Everything since the Reformation has been a series of movements that seek to destroy authority itself by constantly whittling it down, and society has been paying the price ever since. How you answer the above questions tells more than any nonsensical political quadrant quiz. That's the heart of the matter.

[DrYouth]

A series of revolutions that leave us essentially with little trust in any authority.
It's only a question of who we distrust more.

The left sees focusses its distrust on "the privileged" and puts it's hope in the liberal State.

The right focusses its distrust on the liberal elites... and now wants to create an alternative State... spearheaded by a non-liberal elite with a dream of ending the rise of liberal ideology.

I mean some of this is making more sense to me now... it's simply that the folks who are spearheading this alternative State are not putting on a good show...

[Speaker to Animals]

A series of revolutions that leave us essentially with little trust in any authority.
It's only a question of who we distrust more.

The left sees focusses its distrust on "the privileged" and puts it's hope in the liberal State.

The right focusses its distrust on the liberal elites... and now wants to create an alternative State... spearheaded by a non-liberal elite with a dream of ending the rise of liberal ideology.

I mean some of this is making more sense to me now... it's simply that the folks who are spearheading this alternative State are not putting on a good show...

Nobody is spearheading an alternative. We elected Trump as a kind of foil, not as a solution.

[DrYouth]

Nobody is spearheading an alternative. We elected Trump as a kind of foil, not as a solution.

He is certainly making a great foil, but many hoped he would bring solutions... fewer now, perhaps.

[Speaker to Animals]

Nobody is spearheading an alternative. We elected Trump as a kind of foil, not as a solution.

He is certainly making a great foil, but many hoped he would bring solutions... fewer now, perhaps.

Everybody can see how unqualified and hypocritical the establishment was this whole time now. Look at how they went at Roy Moore with that rape hoax and it blew up in their faces. Electing Trump changed everything. The fact that Roy Moore is winning that race despite the campaign of fake rape accusations demonstrates the American people are awakened to the scam.

Also look at how cynical everybody is towards the media. Most Americans realize now that that MSM deliberately lies to them for political aims. Before Trump that wasn't the case. When I told the average normie that CNN is fake and lies to people every day, they'd disbelieve me despite the evidence.

[Speaker to Animals]

Another thing.. you know liberalism is pretty well on its way to becoming nothing more than a historical subject when most people on the left are either indifferent to or support the use of violence in political discourse. If the left as a whole is okay with that, and they are, then liberalism as a concept no longer applies to most of them. That's utterly incomprehensible to a liberal worldview. An actual liberal would see the support of (or indifference to) political violence as a response to speech as an indication that somebody is utterly wrong. A liberal should say: "It's okay. We don't agree. Everything is fine as long as we can keep talking. We can figure out where each of us are coming from and work out a compromise." That was the better nature of liberalism, despite all the other faults.

But what we have today is not liberalism. Liberalism is all but dead. Some of you are the old guard and when you guys pass along, liberalism will pass with you.

How could you possibly turn this around. Most of the youth on the left are hardcore neo-Marxists now. The youth on the right are whatever this new right coalition will become. Conservatism is dead too for similar reasons. These things just don't apply to people's lives anymore. Liberals and conservatives are the ones who created the very conditions for people to turn away from them.