The Armory - Guns, Knives, and Axes

[Montegriffo]

They didn't suck, but they are overrated.

They probably did more to win the war than everything except the strategic bombing by the RAF and USAF.

Heres some music you can worship the Commies by

Really, you so run out of arguments that you have to resort to accusing me of being a Commie worshipper.
Don't give up so easily, you're not French are you?

[TheReal_ND]

Russia did most of the fighting. Your 80% figure is mostly meaningless.
What are the figures for who destroyed the most German tanks?
Was it actually panzers which blew up Russian tanks or the formidable 88mm anti-tank gun?

Hard to say how they got a 99.99% loss rate. They probably just sucked at making tanks.

Sarcasm off. Tbf Hitler was being retarded about tank production towards the end and insisted they keep moving forward with new platforms long after the tanks in the field were running out of parts to be maintained. By the end German tanks were cutting edge platforms built on cut corners and bubble gum.

Lots of examples of him spending resources on trying to produce the best weapons when what they really needed was volume.
The ME 262 was a good example of this. Easily the best combat aircraft of its time but too little too late and nowhere near enough volume to make a difference.
Same with the V1 and V2. The amount of HE they dropped on England and Antwerp etc was tiny compared to what much more primitive allied bombers dropped on Germany.
Mind you, the Germans had pretty much run out of experienced pilots and crew by then anyway.

V rockets were a revolutionary platform in the end but at the time they were only useful as terror bombing.

I am unclear if the Reich was cognizant of the effect the rockets actually had now that I think of it. They certainly understood the long term potential of it. They certainly had plans of going to moon and even Mars.

[Montegriffo]

Old one ball was just too keen to get the war started.
Should have given his scientists more time to produce their superior technology in larger numbers.
Hitler was the Allies greatest weapon.

[TheReal_ND]

A lot of the slander you are familiar with is likely Jewish in origin.

If you read mein kampf it becomes quite clear exactly why Hitler felt an immediate need to act. He correctly estimated his time frame and looking at it objectivly it is clear to anyone there is only one place in time and space for Hitler to exist. His rise to power was predicated by a host of problems that he was able to exploit in order to gain popularity. If the anti fascits were a bit smarter than being the tools of the establishment they might take some time to understand what gave rise to a figure like Hitler.

Furthermore, none of his intentions were as evil as Hollywood and the History Channel tells us to beleive. There was a great force of positivism behind the rise of Nazism.

[C-Mag]

They probably did more to win the war than everything except the strategic bombing by the RAF and USAF.

Heres some music you can worship the Commies by

Really, you so run out of arguments that you have to resort to accusing me of being a Commie worshipper.
Don't give up so easily, you're not French are you?

Relax Francis, its a joke.
You provide no evidence other than sloped armor, and declare victory...…………. Pfft.


80% Losses, T-34's are overrated.

[Montegriffo]

Heres some music you can worship the Commies by

Really, you so run out of arguments that you have to resort to accusing me of being a Commie worshipper.
Don't give up so easily, you're not French are you?

Relax Francis, its a joke.
You provide no evidence other than sloped armor, and declare victory...…………. Pfft.


80% Losses, T-34's are overrated.

You miss the bit about reliability and ease of production leading to numerical superiority or just got nothing but 80% ?
What about the point about the superiority of German tank commanders and generals? Are you going to ignore that as well and just repeat 80% over and over again?
Tell me again about the Pershing which didn't even get into the conflict until the last few weeks of the war.
So a design ten years more modern beat the T34 in the Korean War. That doesn't address the fact that the T34 won WWII for Russia.
Oh and sloped armour was revolutionary. No tank before the T34 had it and all tanks after the T34 did.

[C-Mag]

80% Losses, T-34's are overrated.

You miss the bit about reliability and ease of production leading to numerical superiority or just got nothing but 80% ?

The M4 Sherman was the most reliable tank in WWII
Expected field hours
Panther 700-1000 km
T-34: 2000-2500 km, 250-300 hours
IS/ISU-122: 1200-1800 km, 230-280 hours
M4A2: 2000-2500 km, 250-300 hours
SU-76: 1200-1800 km, 180-200 hours

As you can see while it was better than the Panther in this regard, the Sherman was equal. So, it really didn't outshine all other tanks. Add to it the fact that M4 Sherman could be easily refitted and put back into battle quickly, it was the most reliable tank.

http://tankarchives.blogspot.com/2013/0 ... ility.html

What about the point about the superiority of German tank commanders and generals? Are you going to ignore that as well and just repeat 80% over and over again?

All the Allies fought German Generals. What's the point ? Are you saying that when Monte beat Rommel at El Alamein that the Brits should claim no victory because Rommel was a benchwarmer ?

[TheReal_ND]

Who the fuck even cares if the US had the most reliable tank at the end of the war? We also had the only reliable supply chain outside of Russia who we supplied with all manner of material. Wow. We had a tank that wasn't falling apart after an epic war. We cribbed all the notes and showed up with a fresh coat of paint. So brave.

[Montegriffo]

80% Losses, T-34's are overrated.

You miss the bit about reliability and ease of production leading to numerical superiority or just got nothing but 80% ?

The M4 Sherman was the most reliable tank in WWII
Expected field hours
Panther 700-1000 km
T-34: 2000-2500 km, 250-300 hours
IS/ISU-122: 1200-1800 km, 230-280 hours
M4A2: 2000-2500 km, 250-300 hours
SU-76: 1200-1800 km, 180-200 hours

As you can see while it was better than the Panther in this regard, the Sherman was equal. So, it really didn't outshine all other tanks. Add to it the fact that M4 Sherman could be easily refitted and put back into battle quickly, it was the most reliable tank.

http://tankarchives.blogspot.com/2013/0 ... ility.html

What about the point about the superiority of German tank commanders and generals? Are you going to ignore that as well and just repeat 80% over and over again?

All the Allies fought German Generals. What's the point ? Are you saying that when Monte beat Rommel at El Alamein that the Brits should claim no victory because Rommel was a benchwarmer ?

Monty waited until he had a numbers superiority of 3 to 1 before fighting at Alamein. He needed it too, the British lost more tanks than the Germans but won because Rommel ran out of tanks first.
The victory had as much to do with Royal Navy domination in the Med and the heroes of Malta disrupting resupply of the Africa corps than tank quality.

[Montegriffo]

Tanks may win battles but logistics win wars.