Socialism

[DBTrek]

I am not sure about healthcare. I am not opposed to single payer insurance if it comes to that, but state run hospitals and government doctors are very dangerous.

You hear very few Canadians complaining about these... when they receive a bill of $0 for their hospital stay.

People collecting the fruits of others labor without having to sacrifice anything aren’t complaining?

You don’t say ...

[DrYouth]

People collecting the fruits of others labor without having to sacrifice anything aren’t complaining?

You don’t say ...

How is going to the hospital collecting the fruits of others labor?

LMAO

[DBTrek]

How is receiving medical services and care while paying nothing collecting the fruits of other’s labor?
Indeed, doctor.
Indeed.


Perhaps in the solar-powered robot hospitals of the future that will be the question to ask.

[Montegriffo]

Where you have something that cannot by nature have competition, it works. I would prefer socialized utilities, for example. England is fucked hard by a privatized train transit system.

I am not sure about healthcare. I am not opposed to single payer insurance if it comes to that, but state run hospitals and government doctors are very dangerous.

To be fair, we were fucked just as hard when we had a nationalised railway and investment in infrastructure was worse back then.

[DrYouth]

How is receiving medical services and care while paying nothing collecting the fruits of other’s labor?
Indeed, doctor.
Indeed.

This would be a solid criticism if we were talking about something people want to do...
But hospitals are places no one wants to go unless they have to.

Socialized medicine doesn't cover botox injections and cosmetic surgery...
Otherwise your criticism would be valid.

The state can provide necessary medical care for it's citizens as part of the social contract.
It makes the state stronger and it's citizens happier and healthier.
It's a win win.

This does not work for consumer goods... as the soviets learned the hard way...
But health care works pretty well.

[Zlaxer]

Socialism is the camel nose under the tent of Marxism....ignorant proles are the problem...always have been...always will be....

Ignorant proles are one of the problems...
Corrupt elites and rent seekers are the other.

If a society can navigate down the middle channel it can maximize the benefit of both of these groups and go for the win.

So how does one undo the alliance of the proles (recipient of government gibs) and elites (selected vendors of government gibs)?

[DrYouth]

So how does one undo the alliance of the proles (recipient of government gibs) and elites (selected vendors of government gibs)?

One keeps them in check with a competing party or parties with different alliances... and rules regulating the interactions of elites with government... (i.e. lobbyists)... government auditors etc.
The Parliamentary system seems to be better at this IMO.

[DBTrek]

This would be a solid criticism if we were talking about something people want to do...
But hospitals are places no one wants to go unless they have to.

Socialized medicine doesn't cover botox injections and cosmetic surgery...
Otherwise your criticism would be valid.

So you believe that desire vs necessity somehow matters when we’re talking about whether or not people are collecting the fruits of others labor?

Sounds suspect.

People don’t want to take their failing vehicle to the auto shop. If we socialize mechanics nationwide so anyone can take their car in and have it repaired for “free” is someone still not ultimately paying the cost for someone else simply because no one desires a broken car?

I’d say desire vs necessity plays no role whatsoever in the “collecting the fruits of others labor” equation.

I took out college loans for my degree. That means others paid for my education. While attending classes I was collecting up all the fruits of other’s labor and having a grand ol’ time! Now, ultimately I had to pay it all back with interest, but that doesn’t change the fact that before it was paid off my education was a result of the labors of others.

So whether you’re getting heart surgery, getting your engine replaced, or getting a BS in History, the fact remains that every cent paid by others represents “labor fruits” collected by the recipient.

[Zlaxer]

So whether you’re getting heart surgery, getting you engine replaced, or getting a BS in History, the fact remains that every cent paid by others represents “labor fruits” collected by the recipient.

Ahh...DB...This is where you're wrong....the Fed makes money available to banks with the click of a button....it's created without any labor...


When you go for a home mortgage, the bank lends you money it "borrowed" from the Fed....

This is why the system does not behave according to sane rules of economics....and why it's doomed to collapse...fiat currency always fails.

[DBTrek]

Labor is not synonymous with dollars, or any currency. Try thinking in terms of productivity rather than money. A heart transplant doesn’t happen, car engines are not installed, and history courses are not taught without someone investing their productive labor into these endeavors.

If the people investing productivity into my heart, car, or education aren’t being compensated by me, then I’ve collected their labor fruits and returned nothing.

And ... as Dr. Y astutely pointed out ... people freely collecting the fruits of others labor are disinclined to complain. Shocking, eh?