"Altruism" is Base Newspeak

[Fife]

Some of you all may have read some Nock before.

Comments?

What's the last "altruistic" act you performed?

[DBTrek]

No one ever donated to disaster relief efforts?

Fascinating.

... oh wait, I see the word trickery at play here. The game is to pretend that if someone feels empathy for others and assists them, then that’s not altruism because the individual *wants* to help.

What a pedantic waste of time.

“ The soldier who sacrificed his life saving his squad by throwing himself on a grenade isn’t an altruist. His selfish ass wanted to throw himself on a grenade”

[Fife]

Yeah, I suspect we both have made individual donations at some point. We have most certainly made involuntary contributions; in fact we are doing so right now at this moment.

So what?

Is "disaster relief" ipso facto altruistic? Or is it egoistic? Or something else?


That's the starting issue.

[Fife]

.... and if it's a "pedantic waste of time," well, then, what are all those do-gooders up to on the Hill today getting this beauty of a budget "deal" rammed through?

It makes a difference whether "altruism" is some kind of attainable collective ("societal") goal (an IRL thing), or not, broheim.

[DBTrek]

Again (because I was adding it when you replied):

“The soldier who sacrificed his life saving his squad by throwing himself on a grenade isn’t an altruist. His selfish ass wanted to throw himself on a grenade“

... except he probably didn’t get up that morning looking for a grenade to dive on, right? He sacrifices himself for the collective because he knew he would die, or everyone would die. Given the option, I’m sure the soldier would prefer not to die at all. Yet to call his sacrifice egoism? To deny it’s altruistic nature due to pedantry that redefines the term to be an impossible motivation?

Nah.

You can keep that cold, cynical, world-view. I don’t know what you’ll do with it, but clearly not anything that benefits anyone but yourself. Sounds like the ideal philosophy for sociopaths (which I know you’re not, but it would certainly be appealing to them, no?).

[Fife]

Again (because I was adding it when you replied):

“The soldier who sacrificed his life saving his squad by throwing himself on a grenade isn’t an altruist. His selfish ass wanted to throw himself on a grenade“

... except he probably didn’t get up that morning looking for a grenade to dive on, right? He sacrifices himself for the collective because he knew he would die, or everyone would die. Given the option, I’m sure the soldier would prefer not to die at all. Yet to call his sacrifice egoism? To deny it’s altruistic nature due to pedantry that redefines the term to be an impossible motivation?

Nah.

You can keep that cold, cynical, world-view. I don’t know what you’ll do with it, but clearly not anything that benefits anyone but yourself. Sounds like the ideal philosophy for sociopaths (which I know you’re not, but it would certainly be appealing to them, no?).

What's cold, cynical?

Who is advocating avoidance of sacrifice (to your platoon mates, your children, your wife, your neighbors, mother Gaia, anyone or anything)? Not me.

In fact, I expect more of it, in every walk of life.

I just happen to have doubts (to put it lightly) as to whether some abstract collective notion of societal "altruism" does anything to increase human prosperity and to ease suffering. Quite the opposite, actually.

Do you need a law from the state to tell you to get up and go to work to feed your kids?

Do you need a law from the state to tell you to risk yourself to protect your brothers in arms?

When the state gets into the business of insuring "altruistic" outcomes, there is no end to the pit.

[C-Mag]

Saint Telemachus basically singlehandedly stopped Gladitorial Games.

[C-Mag]

Yeah, I suspect we both have made individual donations at some point. We have most certainly made involuntary contributions; in fact we are doing so right now at this moment.

So what?

Is "disaster relief" ipso facto altruistic? Or is it egoistic? Or something else?


That's the starting issue.

I will say this, most of the money making it's way to charitable organizations is used to pad the pockets of the people at the head of these do gooder non-profits.

[DBTrek]

Whether the state should leverage power in the name of altruism is a separate argument from whether altruism exists, in my view.

Laws aren’t people, so laws certainly don’t act altruistically.

[Fife]

Saint Telemachus basically singlehandedly stopped Gladitorial Games.

A good example.

Was St. Telemachus engaging in "altruism," or something else?