I highly recommend this read to the forum. I think the issues examined and discussed cut to the core of a lot of the social and political conversations that go on around here. I actually listened to the audiobook on my glorious 2+ hour daily commute, but the book is only 192 pages. If you had time for Robert Jordan to yammer on for 10,000 pages about Trollocs and Aes Sedai and all that crap, surely you have 192 pages worth of time to read something that will give you more insight and perspective on the human condition.
I highly recommend this read to the forum. I think the issues examined and discussed cut to the core of a lot of the social and political conversations that go on around here. I actually listened to the audiobook on my glorious 2+ hour daily commute, but the book is only 192 pages. If you had time for Robert Jordan to yammer on for 10,000 pages about Trollocs and Aes Sedai and all that crap, surely you have 192 pages worth of time to read something that will give you more insight and perspective on the human condition.
I read war and the perfect storm way back in the day. Guy can write.
Not having read the book, I think the tendency for tribalism is a part of human nature. Sometimes it leads to Rwanda situations, sometimes it leads to things like putting a man on the moon. Its not going away though. It is just better disguised now in various ideologies, movements, and global projects. But the impetus for many of these things is the same as those of Stone Age humans banding together.
^ Junger was on Joe Rogan last weekish, good podcast. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4KiOECVGLg&t=11m25s I liked the part where he talked about Restrepo and the soldiers that wanted to go back after they came home. Interesting stuff, I imagine the book is very good
pineapplemike wrote:^ Junger was on Joe Rogan last weekish, good podcast. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4KiOECVGLg&t=11m25s I liked the part where he talked about Restrepo and the soldiers that wanted to go back after they came home. Interesting stuff, I imagine the book is very good
Listened. Good enough to finish. Junger talks like he's giving general advice but he's really quite introspective; his suggestions are what make him feel better, articulated as if they apply to everyone. It's a limited kind of wisdom.
I highly recommend this read to the forum. I think the issues examined and discussed cut to the core of a lot of the social and political conversations that go on around here. I actually listened to the audiobook on my glorious 2+ hour daily commute, but the book is only 192 pages. If you had time for Robert Jordan to yammer on for 10,000 pages about Trollocs and Aes Sedai and all that crap, surely you have 192 pages worth of time to read something that will give you more insight and perspective on the human condition.
That book does look interesting. Maybe I will give it a try.
Found his comment that people in London missed the Blitz after it was over and that the collective mental health of New Yorkers improved after 9/11 fascinating.
Found his comment that people in London missed the Blitz after it was over and that the collective mental health of New Yorkers improved after 9/11 fascinating.
It's a thread he follows deeper in the book - when he starts talking about the astounding PTSD rates in the USA (even accounting for fraud) compared to the 1% PTSD rate of Israel then segues into how some native American tribes made warfare part of their normal lives, the larger pattern begins to emerge. People need to be useful and accepted by their "tribe" (he'd argue), and tribes need to be supportive of their warriors and allow them to be useful when they return rather than treating them like victims. He has a killer example of an African tribe that has been warriors from the dawn of time, but the UN showed up and started telling the soldiers that if they were "suffering" from their terrible experiences in war they could get food rations and other care.
You can guess how that went.
Suddenly all these tribesmen that were perfectly fine being warriors and making war for countless human generations "developed" mental disorders (and acquired food). Yet this shift in their culture had other unintended effects that we've seen replicated in the west. Suddenly the soldiers can't integrate back into their society anymore. They're victims, right? They can't be disabled by trauma yet go about their day to day like everything is fine. Social isolation sets in. The warriors go from being revered and accepted as men to being ostracized and pitied as broken men. Suicide rates go up. Mental illness goes up. Just as it does in western cultures when we follow the same policies.
. . . and that's just a small dose of what's in the book. So - all I can do is recommend it as worth the time. Especially if you have a commute of any size and can listen to it as an audiobook.
Martin Hash wrote:Junger talks like he's giving general advice but he's really quite introspective; his suggestions are what make him feel better, articulated as if they apply to everyone. It's a limited kind of wisdom.
Indeed, that sums it up nicely. The documentary is better, less; Junger, more; 2nd/503rd, 173rd Airborne.
Junger; don't care. 2nd/503rd; wow. Good job making a record of their valour, Junger, now piss off, it can speak for itself.
