Dogma

[Ex-California]

My dogma doesn't fit anywhere neatly and I'm an exercise in contradictions

I am absolutely a populist on the side of the common people and workers, but I can't stand the "cultural marxism" of my economic peers.

I believe that "trickle down economics" is a lie and the economy is only driven by consumersbeaSame when it comes to corporation structure, I feel the value of a company lies in the people who create the products and intellectual properties, the executives are by and large interchangeable button pushers.

We need more unions and employee protection, although I admit the bureaucracy and corruption of our current unions is as bad as our large corporations and government.

I believe in strict literal interpretation of the 1st and 2nd Amendments especially

I support Federal dominion over the states

I support strong environmental protections and expansion of National Parks

I believe in crushing the hold of Wall Street over the world economy and our politicians

I believe in quick and expanded use of the death penalty

I believe that dogs should get nearly the same rights as children

Teddy Roosevelt is the best President we ever had

[C-Mag]

- I believe that Science is the only way to view objective truth, and any belief that contradicts it is dangerous to our progress
- I believe that religion is a complete waste of time for me, but has been incredibly necessary for the frightened masses to coalesce into societies.

This is not an attack on you, but my viewpoint on yours.

When I look at those two statements, I think, Science is GCF's religion. Science is what GCF contributes money to, it's the icon's he has in his home, it's how he forms his moral and ethical choices in life.

Then allow me to retort...

I don't contribute a dime to science, outside of my taxes. I have no icons, other than a few old posters of rock stars, football players, and the Tribune day-after-Cubs-won. I do base my morals upon the most objective view possible, but that's never going to truly be an option. I like to think of myself as working for the greatest good, whenever possible.

I just have no patience for someone arguing 300 years of geological evidence and expecting me to 'go along with' their belief that the earth is 6,000 years old. Or that homosexuality is a sin to some invisible God-force. I have no interest in belief without evidence. You're certainly welcome to it, just keep it away from me, I guess.

If it helps, I take the same approach toward Science itself. I don't like to accept things without reviewing at least some of the evidence for it. I don't think that Dark Matter or Dark Energy exist, because there's no evidence for them, other than a hole in the physics equations. I'm quite certain that Quantum Physics revolve around some basic misunderstanding of the evidence, even though we have the effects mapped out clearly. I'm a natural skeptic like that.

Yeah, this helps me understand you better. I'm a skeptic myself, I believe skepticism should always be embraced, especially in science.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Yeah, it's also a logical fallacy aside from a nonsensical belief system. Science can help us to understand truths about the physical universe. It won't tell you the truth about how you should act in a moral dilemma, how best to organize society, and so forth. It certainly can lend perspective to those things in the forms of propositions within a larger argument, but to say that it's the only truth is actually fallacious.

It's akin to the fallacy of verificationism, i.e. if a statement cannot be scientifically verified and proven, then it is meaningless.

Science can't prove you love your children, or that killing six million Jews was totally evil, and so on.

Of course. And there's nothing wrong with saying that we don't understand where all morality comes from, or what the absolute correct decision is in any situation. I think a lot of the hate on Science lately revolves around journalists trying to extrapolate their goofy-ass headlines from half-understood knowledge.

The truth is that there often is no 'correct' choice in a moral dilemma. You just do the best you can. That doesn't require any sort of religious faith to operate - it's how your mind works anyway.

You can't really argue from an is to and ought in most cases (really, almost all cases). This isn't about religion. It's simple logical truth.

As far as "hatred" on science, I think that's mostly because a lot of science today is political garbage. People can see right through the bullshit, but they are now skeptical of real scientists.

We need another term for this - anything 'political' is not Science. I think that's adding to a lot of the confusion. I still think it's coming from whatever-the-hell is considered to be Science Journalism these days, not actual scientists. There might be some incidents of political hacks among the science community, but they would never pass the peer review process - and that is what matters. Any experiment must be repeatable and enable prediction of future events.

Since this is obviously going to veer off into vaccines and climate change, let's go there. In the vaccine 'debate' you had a celebrity pick up a cause, based on absolutely no knowledge, other than "there is mercury in vaccines". It's been well documented that the amounts are below 'trace', and that a new outbreak of Rubella is far worse than any supposed connection to Autism, but no matter. Panic was incited, and eradicated diseases are killing kids again. I've seen a video of a newborn with Scarlett Fever, and if that happened to my kid, I would find that bitch and kill her myself.

Climate Change - The earth is getting warmer. Simple fact. The only 'debate' is why.
You can talk circles around it all day, but the temp is moving faster than ever recorded in geological history - the only thing that's changed is us. Therefore, Occam's Razor is pretty clear. I'm of the personal opinion that it doesn't matter, it's already too late to stop a disaster. I'm frankly pretty sick of hearing the bickering about it, because nothing will change. People want to score political points, run campaigns on it, dilute the issue, and nothing will change. I'm done with it.

[C-Mag]

My dogma doesn't fit anywhere neatly and I'm an exercise in contradictions

I am absolutely a populist on the side of the common people and workers, but I can't stand the "cultural marxism" of my economic peers.

I believe that "trickle down economics" is a lie and the economy is only driven by consumersbeaSame when it comes to corporation structure, I feel the value of a company lies in the people who create the products and intellectual properties, the executives are by and large interchangeable button pushers.

We need more unions and employee protection, although I admit the bureaucracy and corruption of our current unions is as bad as our large corporations and government.

I believe in strict literal interpretation of the 1st and 2nd Amendments especially

I support Federal dominion over the states

I support strong environmental protections and expansion of National Parks

I believe in crushing the hold of Wall Street over the world economy and our politicians

I believe in quick and expanded use of the death penalty

I believe that dogs should get nearly the same rights as children

Teddy Roosevelt is the best President we ever had

I feel like I am a contradiction as well, I'm a personal liberty fanatic, but I believe American Society needs a mechanism or shared experience to bring us all back together. That mechanism is mandatory Federal Service for 2 years at the age of 18 years, no exceptions.

More later team, I gotta run. !

Appreciate the engagement.

[C-Mag]

Of course. And there's nothing wrong with saying that we don't understand where all morality comes from, or what the absolute correct decision is in any situation. I think a lot of the hate on Science lately revolves around journalists trying to extrapolate their goofy-ass headlines from half-understood knowledge.

The truth is that there often is no 'correct' choice in a moral dilemma. You just do the best you can. That doesn't require any sort of religious faith to operate - it's how your mind works anyway.

You can't really argue from an is to and ought in most cases (really, almost all cases). This isn't about religion. It's simple logical truth.

As far as "hatred" on science, I think that's mostly because a lot of science today is political garbage. People can see right through the bullshit, but they are now skeptical of real scientists.

We need another term for this - anything 'political' is not Science. I think that's adding to a lot of the confusion. I still think it's coming from whatever-the-hell is considered to be Science Journalism these days, not actual scientists. There might be some incidents of political hacks among the science community, but they would never pass the peer review process - and that is what matters. Any experiment must be repeatable and enable prediction of future events.

Since this is obviously going to veer off into vaccines and climate change, let's go there.

Do we need to brother ?

The more interesting discussion related to this is how personal dogma relates to the topic. For instance Kath would be closer in personal dogma with you than me. But she's a AGW skeptic.

[K@th]

The more interesting discussion related to this is how personal dogma relates to the topic. For instance Kath would be closer in personal dogma with you than me. But she's a AGW skeptic.

You certainly understand my philosophy more than most around here, but I don't think science can answer everything. The reason it can't fully map weather is simply because there are too many moving parts. The butterfly effect is impossible to model for.

I was raised racist, homophobic, Catholic, republican. It's safe to say I've changed my mind on things rather dramatically. And more than once.

I continue to go back and forth on the death penalty. I went back and forth on abortion for most of my life. I'm pretty solidly settled where I am on that, now. (first trimester fine, second trimester - why did you wait? third trimester - forget it unless your life is at stake.)

My core dogma is related to not giving any one "group" power over my thinking. I don't believe any group or set of people is all good or all bad.

Reagan? Some good, some bad
Bush? Some good, some bad

Rinse. Repeat.

No religious group has supreme knowledge over any other religious group. They are all just guessing using the same ancient texts.

I dunno - feminists are up to a lot of good except when they are up to no good.

The list goes on and on.

In general - if it doesn't affect my life one bit, I don't care, especially if it's your personal business. I only care when your actions impact me in a negative way. Then I want to take away your right to do that to me.

[Okeefenokee]

I think my viewpoints have evolved a lot over the decade that was my twenties. I'm now weeks away from my thirties, and I think entering a new chapter, the corporate world, will change things still more.

The Falcons though, that's in there for sure.

[SuburbanFarmer]

I think my viewpoints have evolved a lot over the decade that was my twenties. I'm now weeks away from my thirties, and I think entering a new chapter, the corporate world, will change things still more.

The Falcons though, that's in there for sure.

It's a tough slog from here on out, but the rewards get bigger too. Just don't let them break you.

[C-Mag]

Reagan? Some good, some bad
Bush? Some good, some bad

I'm basically there in my dogma too. You get the credit and the blame for what happens while your the one in charge. It's the only fair metric I can use across all Administrations to judge them all. BHO gets to spike the football forever on OBL

How I see recent wars
Reagan - In the Cold War when he takes office, Wins the Cold War (2 other military excursions)
HW Bush - 1 war Gulf War (2 other military excursions)
BJ Clinton - 0 wars, (2 other military excursions)
W Bush - 2 wars
BHO - entered with 2 wars, added 1 war, (2 other military excursions)

[C-Mag]

My viewpoints in Blue

My dogma doesn't fit anywhere neatly and I'm an exercise in contradictions

I am absolutely a populist on the side of the common people and workers, but I can't stand the "cultural marxism" of my economic peers.

I believe that "trickle down economics" is a lie and the economy is only driven by consumersbeaSame when it comes to corporation structure, I feel the value of a company lies in the people who create the products and intellectual properties, the executives are by and large interchangeable button pushers. - Meh, it's a tool of the Elite like Keynesism.

We need more unions and employee protection, although I admit the bureaucracy and corruption of our current unions is as bad as our large corporations and government. - Meh, Unions can be just as bad for workers as large corporations

I believe in strict literal interpretation of the 1st and 2nd Amendments especially. - Good with that.

I support Federal dominion over the states - Disagree completely, I'm a Tenther, I want to see more independence from Washington DC. I think over time the creeping Central Government is weakening our states.

I support strong environmental protections and expansion of National Parks - I'm fine with adding more National Parks and Environmental Protections, but we need to balance it between the states. Nevada is merely a giant Federal reservation. I believe we need to start with the Environmental Restoration of Long Island, NY. It should be restored to condition Europeans found it, make it a National Park, and reserve special access for Algonquin Peoples. Then we need to give Marthas Vineyard and Nantucket back to the Wampanoag

I believe in crushing the hold of Wall Street over the world economy and our politicians - I'm OK with that, the Elites basically all have one thing and only one thing in common. The Ivy League. We could fix this by an affirmative action, educational diversity law.

I believe in quick and expanded use of the death penalty - Yeah it's time

I believe that dogs should get nearly the same rights as children - NOPE, humans come first, I would shoot my own dog before I shoot Hitler.

Teddy Roosevelt is the best President we ever had - OK, why not. He was my favorite for a lot of years of my life.