Literal Odds and Ends

User avatar
Montegriffo
Posts: 18692
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 7:14 am

Re: Literal Odds and Ends

Post by Montegriffo » Mon May 06, 2019 3:17 pm

Speaker to Animals wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 2:25 pm
Montegriffo wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 2:24 pm
Speaker to Animals wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 1:54 pm
They don't even use a standard keyboard?
The annoying thing was the picture on the box was a standard qwerty keyboard so it never occurred to me to check the side of the box where it is marked as ''French''.
Going to have to put stickers on the keys with the wrong letters on them.
That is so funny. I imagine Frenchmen having to do that with keyboards from literally anywhere else in the western world and cussing in French that everybody else is in the wrong here.
According to the side of the box they offer 38 different keyboards.
Even the German keyboard has its letters all over the place.
Image
I guess it makes sense really. The reason the qwerty keyboard was developed was to stop the old fashioned typewriters from jamming by separating the most commonly used letter combinations. Different languages use different letters more frequently in different combinations.
For legal reasons, we are not threatening to destroy U.S. government property with our glorious medieval siege engine. But if we wanted to, we could. But we won’t. But we could.
Image

User avatar
Speaker to Animals
Posts: 38685
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:59 pm

Re: Literal Odds and Ends

Post by Speaker to Animals » Mon May 06, 2019 4:52 pm

I think that might he a myth.

It does not really matter what layout the keyboard is in for speed. You might see slight improvement if you cluster higher frequency letters in the middle, according to the zipf distribution, but the high frequency letters would change depending on the language.

QWERTY came about because of an economic principle called the network effect.

User avatar
Montegriffo
Posts: 18692
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 7:14 am

Re: Literal Odds and Ends

Post by Montegriffo » Mon May 06, 2019 6:08 pm

For legal reasons, we are not threatening to destroy U.S. government property with our glorious medieval siege engine. But if we wanted to, we could. But we won’t. But we could.
Image

brewster
Posts: 1848
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 6:33 pm

Re: Literal Odds and Ends

Post by brewster » Mon May 06, 2019 8:24 pm

Speaker to Animals wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 4:52 pm
QWERTY came about because of an economic principle called the network effect.
I had heard it that the QWERTY layout jammed less on typewriters by putting commonly paired letters apart. But if you mean the effect of standardization speeding technology adoption, sure. I wish phones would do that. Stupidly Moto moved the power button from above the volume buttons to below between the G4 & G6. WHY????? What can that possibly gain? Was it standardizing to Samsung or Apple?
We are only accustomed to dealing with like twenty online personas at a time so when we only have about ten people some people have to be strawmanned in order to advance our same relative go nowhere nonsense positions. -TheReal_ND

User avatar
Speaker to Animals
Posts: 38685
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:59 pm

Re: Literal Odds and Ends

Post by Speaker to Animals » Mon May 06, 2019 8:29 pm

brewster wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 8:24 pm
Speaker to Animals wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 4:52 pm
QWERTY came about because of an economic principle called the network effect.
I had heard it that the QWERTY layout jammed less on typewriters by putting commonly paired letters apart. But if you mean the effect of standardization speeding technology adoption, sure. I wish phones would do that. Stupidly Moto moved the power button from above the volume buttons to below between the G4 & G6. WHY????? What can that possibly gain? Was it standardizing to Samsung or Apple?

No, it is a myth.

Network effect kicks in as more and more people gravitate towards one technology. If there is an alternative to qwetty back in the typewriter days, it eventually gets snuffed out as most machines use qwerty and learning the alternative skill is less useful.

These days it is an artifact since you can configure a keyboard however you like.

User avatar
Montegriffo
Posts: 18692
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 7:14 am

Re: Literal Odds and Ends

Post by Montegriffo » Tue May 07, 2019 1:19 am

Speaker to Animals wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 8:29 pm
brewster wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 8:24 pm
Speaker to Animals wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 4:52 pm
QWERTY came about because of an economic principle called the network effect.
I had heard it that the QWERTY layout jammed less on typewriters by putting commonly paired letters apart. But if you mean the effect of standardization speeding technology adoption, sure. I wish phones would do that. Stupidly Moto moved the power button from above the volume buttons to below between the G4 & G6. WHY????? What can that possibly gain? Was it standardizing to Samsung or Apple?

No, it is a myth.

Network effect kicks in as more and more people gravitate towards one technology. If there is an alternative to qwetty back in the typewriter days, it eventually gets snuffed out as most machines use qwerty and learning the alternative skill is less useful.

These days it is an artifact since you can configure a keyboard however you like.
The network effect explains why the qwerty system came to be adopted in preference to other typewriter layouts but it does not counter the reason for designing it that way.
The guy who invented the typewriter started out with an alphabetical keyboard but changed it to qwerty because of the jamming effect of having commonly paired letters such as T and E close to each other. After the civil war Remington diversified into first sewing machines and then typewriters. There were several layouts to start with and county fairs used to have speed typing contests where the different layouts would compete. Qwerty would win these contests because they jammed less frequently and that is why Remington adopted it. Remington's market dominance then ensured that early adopters used qwerty and the other layouts died off.
For legal reasons, we are not threatening to destroy U.S. government property with our glorious medieval siege engine. But if we wanted to, we could. But we won’t. But we could.
Image

User avatar
Ex-California
Posts: 4114
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:37 pm

Re: Literal Odds and Ends

Post by Ex-California » Tue May 07, 2019 6:49 am

Well if it changed now I'd have to undo decades of learning how to type via shitposting
No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session

Kath
Posts: 1825
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:14 am

Re: Literal Odds and Ends

Post by Kath » Tue May 07, 2019 7:02 am

I learned on a manual. I got up to 80 WPM - when I switched to electric in the next class, my WPM went way down, before I got used to the "flying," effect the electric provided. Then I went up to close to 100, with a 98% accuracy rate. I was pretty good back in the day.
Why are all the Gods such vicious cunts? Where's the God of tits and wine?

User avatar
Speaker to Animals
Posts: 38685
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:59 pm

Re: Literal Odds and Ends

Post by Speaker to Animals » Tue May 07, 2019 7:11 am

Montegriffo wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 1:19 am
Speaker to Animals wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 8:29 pm
brewster wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 8:24 pm

I had heard it that the QWERTY layout jammed less on typewriters by putting commonly paired letters apart. But if you mean the effect of standardization speeding technology adoption, sure. I wish phones would do that. Stupidly Moto moved the power button from above the volume buttons to below between the G4 & G6. WHY????? What can that possibly gain? Was it standardizing to Samsung or Apple?

No, it is a myth.

Network effect kicks in as more and more people gravitate towards one technology. If there is an alternative to qwetty back in the typewriter days, it eventually gets snuffed out as most machines use qwerty and learning the alternative skill is less useful.

These days it is an artifact since you can configure a keyboard however you like.
The network effect explains why the qwerty system came to be adopted in preference to other typewriter layouts but it does not counter the reason for designing it that way.
The guy who invented the typewriter started out with an alphabetical keyboard but changed it to qwerty because of the jamming effect of having commonly paired letters such as T and E close to each other. After the civil war Remington diversified into first sewing machines and then typewriters. There were several layouts to start with and county fairs used to have speed typing contests where the different layouts would compete. Qwerty would win these contests because they jammed less frequently and that is why Remington adopted it. Remington's market dominance then ensured that early adopters used qwerty and the other layouts died off.
That part is a myth.

User avatar
Montegriffo
Posts: 18692
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 7:14 am

Re: Literal Odds and Ends

Post by Montegriffo » Tue May 07, 2019 8:02 am

In the USA in the post civil war era, standardisation became all. The new world was to be a mechanical one. A .22 bullet had to fit any .22 rifle in the world. A typist had to fit any typewriter.

There was hot competition to create a single typewriter standard.

The inventor of the Qwerty keyboard was Christopher Sholes, a Milwaukee port official, Wisconsin senator, sometime newspaper editor and a man who tried to invent not "a" typewriting machine, but "the" typewriting machine.

The challenge was mechanical; to devise a system which linked an easily understandable interface with the complicated technology of ink, typebars, levers and springs.

His first attempt was alphabetical, but the typebars clashed due to the key arrangements. So Sholes arranged them in a way to make the machine work. Frequency and combinations of letters had to be considered to prevent key clashes.

The typewriter wars heated with the appearance of typing competitions, where typists would battle it out to achieve the highest word counts.

Not surprisingly, type would clash and stick. So Sholes, it is alleged, rejigged the letters on his machine in order to keep speeds down.

In 1873, Qwerty was adopted by Remington, famous for its arms and sewing machines as well as its typewriters, and it became adopted as the basis not only for English but the majority of European languages as well.
'Creative obstruction'

But did Sholes really doctor the configuration of letters to slow the typist? Would an inventor really hobble his own brainchild?

If so, argues Fry, then the Qwerty keyboard and its inventor could be accused of "conspiracy to pervert the course of language and to limit the speed of creativity and language input, endangering billions with repetitive strain injury".
Qwerty can be seen, he argues, as "a deliberate spanner in the works of language, metaphorically and technologically".

Qwerty is "not ergonomic", agrees Professor Koichi Yasuoka of Kyoto University, a world expert on the development of the keyboard.

But he sees evidence of the practicality of Qwerty in a world of mechanical typewriters. "T and H is the most frequently used letter pair in English," he explains. "In fact in Sholes's typewriter, the typebar of T and H are located on opposite sides."

The separation of these letters was made in the interests of speed, he believes. Users could type T-H without crashing keys, whereas the proximity of E and R, he argues, is inefficient. In other words there is no evidence of deliberate slowing down.


"Ergonomics were not a characteristic of mid-19th Century design," he concludes.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-10925456
For legal reasons, we are not threatening to destroy U.S. government property with our glorious medieval siege engine. But if we wanted to, we could. But we won’t. But we could.
Image