Game of Thrones - mostly

[Kath]

Distinction without a difference.

The people won't know the difference between her burning someone alive because they "might" be guilty versus him burning down people for fun.

It's willy-nilly leadership without rules, either way. She's said, "break the wheel." Acting like her father, while not technically mad, is not wheel breaking.

As to Jon - I don't know how much news from Essos they get at the wall. I am under the assumption that he was never told. Does Cersei even know she did that? Jorah was no longer informing. She didn't get Varys & Tyrion until after those crucifixions, so not sure who would send a raven to Westoros.

And I would also argue that anyone who gets pleasure by burning people alive is a whack job.

[StCapps]

Varys would probably know, he's got his spies and shit. Jorah wasn't the only one, he's got little birds everywhere. Also if you'll recall that Varys said their romance wouldn't last. Foreshadowing ftw, well hopefully.

Stab that bitch Jon, prove you ain't a cuck, she ain't never going to give the wildlings or the North their independence, it will be bend the knee or die, and that ain't gonna fly this time. Jon won't be having that, if the writers don't suck that is.

[BjornP]

Distinction without a difference.

The people won't know the difference between her burning someone alive because they "might" be guilty versus him burning down people for fun.

It's willy-nilly leadership without rules, either way. She's said, "break the wheel." Acting like her father, while not technically mad, is not wheel breaking.

As to Jon - I don't know how much news from Essos they get at the wall. I am under the assumption that he was never told. Does Cersei even know she did that? Jorah was no longer informing. She didn't get Varys & Tyrion until after those crucifixions, so not sure who would send a raven to Westoros.

And I would also argue that anyone who gets pleasure by burning people alive is a whack job.

The wheel was referring to the power structures of Westeros, not the psychology of her father, but still... she has reneged on the "breaking the wheel" goal she discussed with Tyrion last season. She waved him off when he talked about securing the succession, for example, and feels at least a little threatened by Jon/Aegon.

Who gets pleasure from burning someone, sure, that's what I was saying. But the act of burning someone to death, without taking pleasure from it? Isn't madness. You think anyone throughout history who ever sentenced someone to die by burning, as well as everyone watching who cheered the act on, was clinically mad? Like sociopaths, skizofrenics, etc? Come on.

Dany demanded their surrender and allegiance. They didn't give it, they died. Ruthless, sure, but not mad. And as the execution clip showed, death by dragonfire is alot quicker than just being tied to a pole and being burned.

.....

But no, DrY, I don't agree with your assessment of Dany as a SJW queen to Cuck Jon Snow. In the context of the show's reality, the context of the social reality of the show, women are nowhere near men's equals. Does the show cater to SJW's? It does. But in the context of the show, none of the men are being "cucked". They acknowledge that women can be equal in terms of governance. They're no more cucks than every single British soldier or sailor who fought the Argentinians during the Falklands War, a war fought on behalf of a woman PM and a queen.
There's also nothing particularly "SJW" about wanting to torture and crucify slave owners, anymore than fantasizing about chugging Commies out of helicopters is "SJW", or fantasizing about torturing pedophiles is "SJW". I mean, what would you do if you found yourself in possesion of a hundred, captured ISIS war leaders who all owned, tortured and raped "their" slaves, including children? And you were in some ME no man's land where the law - if there was any, wouldn't care? You wouldn't execute them all?

If the SJW crowd cheer for such things, too, that just means they can get somethings right once in a while.

[Kath]

Varys would probably know, he's got his spies and shit. Jorah wasn't the only one, he's got little birds everywhere. Also if you'll recall that Varys said their romance wouldn't last. Foreshadowing ftw, well hopefully.

Stab that bitch Jon, prove you ain't a cuck, she ain't never going to give the wildlings or the North their independence, it will be bend the knee or die, and that ain't gonna fly this time. Jon won't be having that, if the writers don't suck that is.

Varys didn't meet Jon until Dragonstone. Dany threatened to kill Varys if he showed any disloyalty whatsoever. You think he's going to tell on her, especially when he wasn't around to see it firsthand? Puleeeeze.

Jon isn't stupid, he's got a sense of honor, he doesn't want to hurt people, and he's been taught to not make judgments willy-nilly. This is what he knows and what he believes.

When he learns Dany doesn't have many of those qualities, he's going to remind her that he has the true claim.

If Dany says, "nah, I want it anyway," he's going to kill her.

I don't see an ending with Jon allowing an asshole without a rightful claim to sit on the throne.

He told her at Dragonstone that if she went nuclear, she's just more of the same. He'll see her true colors soon enough.

He's not interested in serving under Cersei Junior. Won't happen.

[StCapps]

Varys would probably know, he's got his spies and shit. Jorah wasn't the only one, he's got little birds everywhere. Also if you'll recall that Varys said their romance wouldn't last. Foreshadowing ftw, well hopefully.

Stab that bitch Jon, prove you ain't a cuck, she ain't never going to give the wildlings or the North their independence, it will be bend the knee or die, and that ain't gonna fly this time. Jon won't be having that, if the writers don't suck that is.

Varys didn't meet Jon until Dragonstone. Dany threatened to kill Varys if he showed any disloyalty whatsoever. You think he's going to tell on her, especially when he wasn't around to see it firsthand? Puleeeeze.

Jon isn't stupid, he's got a sense of honor, he doesn't want to hurt people, and he's been taught to not make judgments willy-nilly. This is what he knows and what he believes.

When he learns Dany doesn't have many of those qualities, he's going to remind her that he has the true claim.

If Dany says, "nah, I want it anyway," he's going to kill her.

I don't see an ending with Jon allowing an asshole without a rightful claim to sit on the throne.

He told her at Dragonstone that if she went nuclear, she's just more of the same. He'll see her true colors soon enough.

He's not interested in serving under Cersei Junior. Won't happen.

Jon is actually fairly stupid, just like Ned Stark, thankfully he's got smart people around him like Sansa and Bran to make up for that. Varys will probably tell him once he realizes the Queen has gone mad, Varys is a bit of an SJW himself, which is why he sided with Dany in the first place, if she isn't the wheel breaker she promises to be, I think Varys turns on her with a viable alternative in place like Aegon Targaryen, seems very Varys like.

I hope Jon turns out to be slightly smarter Ned Stark, and doesn't fall for the same trap that Rob Stark did, the sweet spot is pursuing the rightful claim to the throne, and not letting love for a woman get you backstabbed by former allies. Just enough Stark streak of justice, tempered with just enough of a Targaryen streak of ruthlessness, that's the key. Embrace your half-breed nature Jon Snow, it's your only hope to avoid being cucked, by your Aunt no less.

[Kath]

Jon is actually fairly stupid, just like Ned Stark, thankfully he's got smart people around him like Sansa and Bran to make up for that. Varys will probably tell him once he realizes the Queen has gone mad, Varys is a bit of an SJW himself, which is why he sided with Dany in the first place, if she isn't the wheel breaker she promises to be, I think Varys turns on her with a viable alternative in place like Aegon Targaryen, seems very Varys like.

I hope Jon turns out to be slightly smarter Ned Stark, and doesn't fall for the same trap that Rob Stark did, the sweet spot is pursuing the rightful claim to the throne, and not letting love for a woman get you backstabbed by former allies. Just enough Stark streak of justice, tempered with just enough of a Targaryen streak of ruthlessness, that's the key. Embrace your half-breed nature Jon Snow, it's your only hope to avoid being cucked, by your Aunt no less.

I completely agree about Varys turning on her. I don't see SJW as much as I see him simply not wanting an asshole to rule. He's said that, numerous times.

Jon is not a good general, but that doesn't mean he's stupid. Lots and lots of smart people have no clue how to prep for war.

[StCapps]

I completely agree about Varys turning on her. I don't see SJW as much as I see him simply not wanting an asshole to rule. He's said that, numerous times.

Jon is not a good general, but that doesn't mean he's stupid. Lots and lots of smart people have no clue how to prep for war.

Jon is half retarded Kath, very slow on the uptake, it is known. Jon is not smart, neither was Ned Stark, he's always getting out thought by his opposition, just like Ned before him, and Rob as well. It's not about winning or losing battles, it's about pursuing what is right in face of all pragmatic considerations to the point where that naive optimism gets you killed.

He's got that Male Stark Brave Blockhead Syndrome, how can you not have noticed? That's what got Jon killed by his own men, and it took some Lord of the Light shit to bring him back from the dead, come on now Kath, don't you remember?

Sansa and Bran are the smart ones, but they weren't smart enough as kids to save Ned or Rob, so Ned bumbled his way into execution, followed by Rob. Hopefully Jon breaks the wheel, and proves that a little experience and a dash of Targaryen blood are enough to temper the Male Stark Brave Blockhead Syndrome is what it takes to not get killed blinded by naive optimism this time, with a little help from Sansa and Bran to make up for his lack of smartness and tunnel vision on justice.

If Dany wants to kill Jon, the key is going to be taking out Sansa, and Bran first, so Brave Blockhead Jon doesn't have any smart people to bail him out. She'll also have to take out Arya, or she'll just get killed by her after she takes out Jon.

Jon is in a better position to win a Targaryen Backstabbing Civil War post-Long Night, considering his allies, if he doesn't go full on Brave Blockhead that is, which he has been known to in the past, and one side of his family is notorious for doing it, especially on the male side, with Bran being the only exception, and basically only after becoming the Three-Eyed-Raven.

[Kath]

I completely agree about Varys turning on her. I don't see SJW as much as I see him simply not wanting an asshole to rule. He's said that, numerous times.

Jon is not a good general, but that doesn't mean he's stupid. Lots and lots of smart people have no clue how to prep for war.

Jon is half retarded Kath, very slow on the uptake, it is known. Jon is not smart, neither was Ned Stark, he's always getting out thought by his opposition, just like Ned before him, and Rob as well. It's not about winning or losing battles, it's about pursuing what is right in face of all pragmatic considerations to the point where that naive optimism gets you killed.

He's got that Male Stark Brave Blockhead Syndrome, how can you not have noticed? That's what got Jon killed by his own men, and it took some Lord of the Light shit to bring him back from the dead, come on now Kath, don't you remember?

Sansa and Bran are the smart ones, but they weren't smart enough as kids to save Ned or Rob, so Ned bumbled his way into execution, followed by Rob. Hopefully Jon breaks the wheel, and proves that a little experience and a dash of Targaryen blood are enough to temper the Male Stark Brave Blockhead Syndrome is what it takes to not get killed blinded by naive optimism this time, with a little help from Sansa and Bran to make up for his lack of smartness and tunnel vision on justice.

If Dany wants to kill Jon, the key is going to be taking out Sansa, and Bran first, so Brave Blockhead Jon doesn't have any smart people to bail him out. She'll also have to take out Arya, or she'll just get killed by her after she takes out Jon.

Jon is in a better position to win a Targaryen Backstabbing Civil War post-Long Night, considering his allies, if he doesn't go full on Brave Blockhead that is, which he has been known to in the past, and one side of his family is notorious for doing it, especially on the male side, with Bran being the only exception, and basically only after becoming the Three-Eyed-Raven.

Ok, point taken.

Dany has almost no friends in Westoros (2 actual Westoros residents?), so even if she does manage to climb on the throne via dragon fire, the first time she makes a douche move against "her" people, a Queenslayer will emerge.

[StCapps]

Ok, point taken.

Dany has almost no friends in Westoros (2 actual Westoros residents?), so even if she does manage to climb on the throne via dragon fire, the first time she makes a douche move against "her" people, a Queenslayer will emerge.

I just hope the writers are smart enough to see that Jon is the perfect candidate to go Queenslayer on her. That's just better drama than any other possible alternative.

Breaking Bad knows that even if it's predictable, if you don't pass up the option that leads to the best drama, as long as you deliver on it better than anyone could imagine, then everybody will love it anyway. In the end knowing what is going to happen, doesn't hurt the ending, if you do it right, just ask Shakespeare.

Vince Gilligan knows, unfortunately, I don't think that Benioff or Weiss can hold a candle to the genius that is Vince Gilligan, so they might go for the twist, just for the sake of a plot twist.

[brewster]

Jon is half retarded Kath, very slow on the uptake, it is known. Jon is not smart, neither was Ned Stark, he's always getting out thought by his opposition, just like Ned before him, and Rob as well. It's not about winning or losing battles, it's about pursuing what is right in face of all pragmatic considerations to the point where that naive optimism gets you killed.

He's got that Male Stark Brave Blockhead Syndrome, how can you not have noticed? That's what got Jon killed by his own men, and it took some Lord of the Light shit to bring him back from the dead, come on now Kath, don't you remember?

Sansa and Bran are the smart ones, but they weren't smart enough as kids to save Ned or Rob, so Ned bumbled his way into execution, followed by Rob. Hopefully Jon breaks the wheel, and proves that a little experience and a dash of Targaryen blood are enough to temper the Male Stark Brave Blockhead Syndrome is what it takes to not get killed blinded by naive optimism this time, with a little help from Sansa and Bran to make up for his lack of smartness and tunnel vision on justice.

If Dany wants to kill Jon, the key is going to be taking out Sansa, and Bran first, so Brave Blockhead Jon doesn't have any smart people to bail him out. She'll also have to take out Arya, or she'll just get killed by her after she takes out Jon.

Jon is in a better position to win a Targaryen Backstabbing Civil War post-Long Night, considering his allies, if he doesn't go full on Brave Blockhead that is, which he has been known to in the past, and one side of his family is notorious for doing it, especially on the male side, with Bran being the only exception, and basically only after becoming the Three-Eyed-Raven.

I'm finally caught up and can read this thread again. Great point about the "Honorable" Starks. Other thoughts:

But why does no one take seriously a "Ferdinand & Isabella" co-equal king and queen?

Somebody important should have died in the damn crypt. That was lame. Missande would have been good and very tragic, leading Greyworm to do some crazy shit. But Tyrion would have done too, he's outlived his usefulness, he's not that good a Hand.

WTF is Bran good for if he did squat against the NK? Why should the NK fear the 3 eyed raven if the he has no practical power or even the ability to gather battlefield intel?

Cavalry are for gathering intel and terrorizing foot troops on open ground. Since you can't terrorize zombies they should have gotten the fucking Dothraki off their horses, armed them with dragonglass pike's and had them defend the undermanned walls. Everyone should have had dragonglass pike's, or at least Pilum's or Asssegai's like Arya.