Socialism

[Montegriffo]

Also has moved them backwards...more often than not...

The problem is the elite are greedy and the poor are dumb as fuck....thus, the middle/lower upper classes get screwed.

Well we have come a long way since the French Revolution...

Noble privilege and Church control of state and land are hardly an issue in today's western world...
Although some (perhaps some on the forum) might question whether even that was a move forward.

Universal suffrage was hardly dreamed about and is now the norm in the western world.

Protections for worker's rights, weekends, maternity leaves, etc... etc... these things were never even dreamed of and are now taken almost for granted.

So saying that it moved pleb intersts backwards more often than not is not the case...

That if often moved pleb interests backwards and very far backwards in many cases is certainly true...

But socialism isn't just the worst case scenarios... Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Chaves...
It has also had more benign manifestations... Canadian socialism, Scandinavian socialism... also with pros and cons...
It's weak to demonise the entire construct.... as much as demonizing capitalism... which also has had pros and cons.

The combination of light socialism and strong capitalism has had the best results... USA and 5 eyes...

I was expecting more of a response to this post...

Is this uncontroversial?

Surprised you got away with mentioning workers rights.
That normally gets you called a Marxist here.

[DBTrek]

You know what they say about the German trains ...

How are we supposed to respond? “You’re so right, structuring a society around a powerful government that treats individual’s personal productivity as a public good to be distributed at the discretion of the ruling class isn’t 100% bad”?

If all you care about are train schedules, Nazism ain’t that bad.
/shrug

[DrYouth]

Socialism is good at roads and trains, universities and health care....
But it pretty much sucks at everything else...

Capitalism sucks at trains, roads, universities and health care.... oh ya and militaries... buts it really good at most other things.

Marrying these two is the solution...

But Capitalism has to wear the pants.

That's what we've learned.

[Zlaxer]

Socialism is good at roads and trains, universities and health care....
But it pretty much sucks at everything else...

Capitalism sucks at trains, roads, universities and health care.... oh ya and militaries... buts it really good at most other things.

Marrying these two is the solution...

But Capitalism has to wear the pants.

That's what we've learned.

Socialism is the camel nose under the tent of Marxism....ignorant proles are the problem...always have been...always will be....

[Speaker to Animals]

Where you have something that cannot by nature have competition, it works. I would prefer socialized utilities, for example. England is fucked hard by a privatized train transit system.

I am not sure about healthcare. I am not opposed to single payer insurance if it comes to that, but state run hospitals and government doctors are very dangerous.

[DBTrek]

Universities arose in the West under Manorialism, and American trains pre-date socialism ... so whatever capitalism’s failings may be, it is a mistake to assume that every weakness it has directly translate to a strength of socialism.

I’ll concede the military though.
Everyone providing for the support and care of soldiers outperforms hiring bands of mercenaries.

[DrYouth]

Socialism is the camel nose under the tent of Marxism....ignorant proles are the problem...always have been...always will be....

Ignorant proles are one of the problems...
Corrupt elites and rent seekers are the other.

If a society can navigate down the middle channel it can maximize the benefit of both of these groups and go for the win.

[DrYouth]

Universities arose in the West under Manorialism, and American trains pre-date socialism ... so whatever capitalism’s failings may be, it is a mistake to assume that every weakness it has directly translate to a strength of socialism.

I’ll concede the military though.
Everyone providing for the support and care of soldiers outperforms hiring bands of mercenaries.

You didn't mention health care I noticed...

How are your mercenary insurance companies working out?

[DBTrek]

How are your mercenary insurance companies working out?

Providing the highest quality of care in the world and driving the most innovative medical research on earth.

How are your long wait times for mediocre doctors working out?

[DrYouth]

I am not sure about healthcare. I am not opposed to single payer insurance if it comes to that, but state run hospitals and government doctors are very dangerous.

You hear very few Canadians complaining about these... when they receive a bill of $0 for their hospital stay.