poll: was Hitler evil

was Hitler even evil?

Yes
9
75%
No
3
25%
 
Total votes: 12

brewster
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Re: poll: was Hitler evil

Post by brewster » Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:10 pm

Smitty-48 wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:09 pm
Bear in mind that the Nazis were aware of this.

The Nazis had a fascination with the American Indians.

The Nazis actually idolized the Lakota as ideal warriors.

The Lakota actually asserted themselves to be a master race as the Nazis did.

So now you are sympathizing with Nazis, just the Indian ones instead of the German ones.

The Lakota were as merciless as the Nazis, the Nazis patterned themselves on the Lakota.

Yet here you come; boo hoo hoo, poor little Indians.

If the Lakota can be sympathized with for their loss, why not the Germans for the Treaty of Versailles?

If you can sympathize with the Lakota who massacred, tortured and enslaved, why you so hard on the Germans?
This is all rhetorical nonsense, and we're not talking at all about 1918. Red herring. There was push and shove among the Native Americans as there was just about everywhere on earth, but rarely did it result in genocide. Much of the American warfare was young men getting their yayas out, as was the case in many places, a good example being New Guinea where there was frequent war but rarely significant casualties. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endemic_warfare

But Europeans in America was what SF writer Iain M Banks called a "out of context event". They had no frame of reference to deal with what it meant, they could not understand it's implications. They never stood a chance. It was like some kids playing touch football in a sandlot when an NFL team comes in and literally crushes them. Yeah, they were in the game, but the game changed beyond recognition.

To some degree the behavior of the Authoritarians of 20th century was an OoC event. Europeans had been at war more or less continually for millennia, and no one had ever tried to systematically wipe out an entire populations since Rome did Carthage, and even that was probably more PR than real genocide. No one in the 30's & 40's believed it was happening at the time, whether it was reports from the USSR of famines, reports of the Rape of Nanking, or reports of Nazi death camps. People assumed it was more of the usual push and shove, not new types of regimes that saw genocide as a tool. Now that is what is I will call evil.
We are only accustomed to dealing with like twenty online personas at a time so when we only have about ten people some people have to be strawmanned in order to advance our same relative go nowhere nonsense positions. -TheReal_ND

Smitty-48
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Re: poll: was Hitler evil

Post by Smitty-48 » Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:15 pm

brewster wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:10 pm
Now that is what is I will call evil.
It's an opinion, but everything you wrote amounts to rhetoric as well.

It's not like there is a scientific formula which proves evil.

I find the "genocide" assertion to be the red herring, it's merely a legal construct; written by the victors.

Mass murder is mass murder. ZOMG Genocide is nonsense, "extra mass murder"? Whoop dee do.

The Belgians liquidated 10 million in the Congo, nobody calls Albert I evil.

How come Belgium gets a pass? Answer; because it's subjective politics.

Hitler is objectively evil but Albert I is not? Paradox.

Of course you are welcome to your subjective opinion; but I am not convinced that it is underpinned by logic.
Nec Aspera Terrent

brewster
Posts: 1848
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Re: poll: was Hitler evil

Post by brewster » Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:31 pm

Smitty-48 wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:15 pm
I find the "genocide" assertion to be the red herring, it's merely a legal construct; written by the victors.
Since when are the Armenians the victors?
Mass murder is mass murder. ZOMG genocide is nonsense, "extra mass murder"? Whoop dee do.
Size matters. When you systematically attempt to kill a significant portion of a population, that's not just the usual collateral casualties of war. In olden days you didn't kill the peasants, they were the property you were fighting to control! Conquering land without labor was pointless. Unless you were Gengis and didn't understand any economy besides grazing horses. The Spanish didn't want to wipe out the Latin American natives, they wanted slaves. But those people made poor slaves so they had to import better ones. Wiping people out is a modern idea based on the economies changing from pure human labor based.
We are only accustomed to dealing with like twenty online personas at a time so when we only have about ten people some people have to be strawmanned in order to advance our same relative go nowhere nonsense positions. -TheReal_ND

Smitty-48
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Re: poll: was Hitler evil

Post by Smitty-48 » Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:37 pm

brewster wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:31 pm
Size matters.
The Belgians liquidated 10 million in the Congo,

No Belgians are indicted for it as evil; for all intents and purposes.

Size apparently does not matter, what matters is subjective politics, clearly.

Maybe Nukedog is right, maybe this "evil" assertion is just the propaganda of a Jewish run media?

The double standard is blatant, nobody indicts Albert I as the Hitler of Africa; realpolitik.
Nec Aspera Terrent

brewster
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Re: poll: was Hitler evil

Post by brewster » Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:43 pm

Smitty-48 wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:37 pm
brewster wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:31 pm
Size matters.
The Belgians liquidated 10 million in the Congo,

No Belgians are indicted for it as evil; for all intents and purposes.

Size apparently does not matter, what matters is subjective politics, clearly.

Maybe Nukedog is right, maybe this "evil" assertion is just the propaganda of a Jewish run media?
I guess we're done when you assert "Maybe Nukedog is right". You're probably just trolling me anyway.
We are only accustomed to dealing with like twenty online personas at a time so when we only have about ten people some people have to be strawmanned in order to advance our same relative go nowhere nonsense positions. -TheReal_ND

Smitty-48
Posts: 36399
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:22 am

Re: poll: was Hitler evil

Post by Smitty-48 » Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:45 pm

brewster wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:43 pm
Smitty-48 wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:37 pm
brewster wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:31 pm
Size matters.
The Belgians liquidated 10 million in the Congo,

No Belgians are indicted for it as evil; for all intents and purposes.

Size apparently does not matter, what matters is subjective politics, clearly.

Maybe Nukedog is right, maybe this "evil" assertion is just the propaganda of a Jewish run media?
I guess we're done when you assert "Maybe Nukedog is right". You're probably just trolling me anyway.
As you like, but when you assert a paradox you lend credence to his claims, inherently.

If you can't even handle the question, then I guess we have to be done, thanks for playing.
Nec Aspera Terrent

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Hastur
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Re: poll: was Hitler evil

Post by Hastur » Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:25 am

I think the Dutch hold the record on genocide if you look at percentage. Capturing the Banda Islands they killed 14000 of a population of 15000. It was a relatively peaceful people, their only crime wanting to do business with the English as well as the Dutch. It was part of the spice islands and nutmeg was all the rage back then.

I think genocidal conquest was the norm looking back at history. We just like to forget, and we keep projecting our own values and morals back at historical people. Hitler came from a generation of Germans that came of age in the trenches of WWI during industrialized slaughter on a scale that was unimaginable to almost anybody who wasn't there. What is the value of a life to someone experienced that?
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Montegriffo
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Re: poll: was Hitler evil

Post by Montegriffo » Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:45 am

I think that most people would consider King Leopold II evil.
For legal reasons, we are not threatening to destroy U.S. government property with our glorious medieval siege engine. But if we wanted to, we could. But we won’t. But we could.
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Speaker to Animals
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Re: poll: was Hitler evil

Post by Speaker to Animals » Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:59 am

It does seem to be the case that Jews somehow made their genocide something special, even though, as bad as it may have been, it hardly ranked anywhere near the worst even in the same period.

What makes the Jewish Holocaust worse than the Soviet communist genocides? Jews were the primary victims, apparently.

I don't think you need to hate on Jews to point out the absurdity of this.

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Speaker to Animals
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Re: poll: was Hitler evil

Post by Speaker to Animals » Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:04 am

Why is it that, when I look up a Wikipedia page about a list of genocides by body count, the Jewish Holocaust is number one and the table lacks a "sort by" function to put it in the appropriate ordering?

Should not a page titled "List of Genocides by Death Toll" be ranked according to death toll?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... death_toll

Weird..