The Draft: Pros-Cons and details

[Speaker to Animals]

I don't think our current wars would have continued for 16 years with each POTUS invading 2 new countries if there was a draft.

You're right here, but it shouldn't take blood sacrifice for Americans to be anti-war; the theft from each paycheck should be enough

[BjornP]

I don't think our current wars would have continued for 16 years with each POTUS invading 2 new countries if there was a draft.

Why, though? You don't think the government and media could persuade or propagandize citizen draftees into public support of a war in some foreign country? That government and the media can't whip up the "need" to go to war?

[Speaker to Animals]

I don't think our current wars would have continued for 16 years with each POTUS invading 2 new countries if there was a draft.

Why, though? You don't think the government and media could persuade or propagandize citizen draftees into public support of a war in some foreign country? That government and the media can't whip up the "need" to go to war?

They almost lost control of it in WW2. Least fatalities of all the major combatants and people were getting weary of the fucking thing by 1945.

[BjornP]

I don't think our current wars would have continued for 16 years with each POTUS invading 2 new countries if there was a draft.

Why, though? You don't think the government and media could persuade or propagandize citizen draftees into public support of a war in some foreign country? That government and the media can't whip up the "need" to go to war?

They almost lost control of it in WW2. Least fatalities of all the major combatants and people were getting weary of the fucking thing by 1945.

Didn't know that. What extent/scale are we talking about in terms of that public weariness? More anti-war politicians getting elected into Congress, riots, demonstrations?

[C-Mag]

I don't think our current wars would have continued for 16 years with each POTUS invading 2 new countries if there was a draft.

Why, though? You don't think the government and media could persuade or propagandize citizen draftees into public support of a war in some foreign country? That government and the media can't whip up the "need" to go to war?

They almost lost control of it in WW2. Least fatalities of all the major combatants and people were getting weary of the fucking thing by 1945.

For our media, as corrupt as it is, it would matter who is POTUS. Remember the Cindy Sheehan sit vigil in Crawford, TX. vs, the wars and casualties just going off the screen during Obama. If Cindy Sheehans kid had been drafted that entire thing would have turned out differently.

[Speaker to Animals]

Why, though? You don't think the government and media could persuade or propagandize citizen draftees into public support of a war in some foreign country? That government and the media can't whip up the "need" to go to war?

They almost lost control of it in WW2. Least fatalities of all the major combatants and people were getting weary of the fucking thing by 1945.

Didn't know that. What extent/scale are we talking about in terms of that public weariness? More anti-war politicians getting elected into Congress, riots, demonstrations?

I used to believe the propaganda you get taught in public schools and on television that portrayed all of America as totally committed to the fight. Then I had to take a history of Chicago course as an undergrad and learned about what was going down in the city. People were *not* happy about that fucking war at all. They were constantly having to battle looming draft riots. Priests and rabbis were fighting over who's communities were getting unfairly tapped with conscription.

Lots of people were also sympathetic to Germany and Italy.

[SuburbanFarmer]

What are you saying here? A draft is OK because the state already fucks you up the arse six ways to Sunday anyhow?

Straighten me out here if I'm barking up the wrong tree.

I was joking.
Mandatory Civil Service is not a new concept invented by Lincoln during the Civil War. It does not infringe upon your freedom for your entire life,

unless it directly ends your life.

[heydaralon]

I dont think that the draft will stop wars the way you guys think it will. The draft protests made the Vietnam war untenable at that point, but not before it lasted years and years and killed more people than Iraq and Afghanistan combined. Drafts also didnt stop Korea or either World War we got involved in. We have had way more casualties from Draft wars than our volunteer army wars.

Im not arguing for or against the draft, just pointing out that it did not make us more peaceful in the 20th century. If you want to make an argument that the draft is good because it shares the collective responsiblilty for our questionable foreign policies, that is a good discussion. But the historical record tells a different story about the draft and peace.

[Okeefenokee]

I don't think our current wars would have continued for 16 years with each POTUS invading 2 new countries if there was a draft.

You can have fuck ups like this without using draftees, no problem.

Name one.

[Okeefenokee]

I dont think that the draft will stop wars the way you guys think it will. The draft protests made the Vietnam war untenable at that point, but not before it lasted years and years and killed more people than Iraq and Afghanistan combined. Drafts also didnt stop Korea or either World War we got involved in. We have had way more casualties from Draft wars than our volunteer army wars.

Im not arguing for or against the draft, just pointing out that it did not make us more peaceful in the 20th century. If you want to make an argument that the draft is good because it shares the collective responsiblilty for our questionable foreign policies, that is a good discussion. But the historical record tells a different story about the draft and peace.

In terms of conflicts we've entered into without a pearl harbor moment, that shit went through the roof after the draft went away.