Boycotting Dell!

[SuburbanFarmer]

Well lets just see, the wifi is choppy at best,

Walk around the office with a WiFi scanner, and see if you're crossing channels, and what your signal coverage looks like. It's also very possible that the traffic is too high for your ISP connection.

everyone is connected to a single hub instead of being balanced out like they should be.

That's normal, unless I misunderstand you. Your WiFi traffic should all be routed to your router.

I can't port forward to computers to bypass the VPN login for file sharing and other things we do here...

You have to log in via VPN on the internal network? Or do you mean for internal to external connection?

I can't limit the people on the network because of the way they have it set up. I can't do a lot of things I should be able to do, because it's not set up correctly.

That's a setting in your router. It does take some know-how to navigate Cisco systems, but you can definitely set max users, or filter devices.

The problem is that there is no way of knowing, the way they have it set up they completely circumvented the logging system... so no traffic is being recorded. Like I said, they broke it, and I need to tare it down and build it back up. The problem is that we pay $2500 a year for Dell support and they aren't providing it.

I'd have to get into your system to see what you're talking about. You can re-enable data logging on the router though, at whatever level you need to.
Cancel the Dell support.

[Ex-California]

Not so fast. You're assuming several things - that the price is actually cheaper over time (upgrades vs. computing time-charges). Availability is the same, unless there's a network/ISP outage (which happens). Security (which is never going to be guaranteed). And, most importantly, how does your ISP service change in the future? Do they throttle your traffic? Pricing changes after the FCC grants them a monopoly?

Also, you're still going to need servers, just to route the traffic. Often, those servers fill multiple functions - file transfers, VoIP, SANs, etc. Which things are you offloading?

Of course it's going to be cheaper. You can spend $130 a month to lease the same computing power as a $50,000 server closet. But building the server closet alone isn't the end of your expenses. You'll have to hire a network admin, right? Two at least. And while you're paying them their salary, their medical insurance, their 401k, etc, etc, they can only do so much in a day.

Let's say you buy your server closet ($50k) and hire your two network admins ($200k/year), and suddenly find that you need *more* storage and computing than you have. Well crap. Now you're going to have to buy more hardware and take your two network admins off the business of administering your network so they can start the buildout. How much will that be?

Or, you know, with AWS you could up your monthly payment to $150 a month instead of $130 a month, and then scale it back down in the future if the network traffic drops off.

It's the comparable expense between the two that has, in fact, spelled the doom of the server closet.

You're only thinking in the short term though. What's the cost of all those monthly charges over 10-20 years, over server upgrades? 30 years? 50?

But sure - in Dystopian world where everyone goes cloud and Amazon and Microsoft (Salesforce and Hitachi too) suddenly say "Instead of $130 a month you will pay $20,000 a month!", then your business gets killed.
Right before their cloud businesses get killed from lack of paying customers.

Those paying customers would likely put up with a price increase, once they're locked into the system.

The only real argument against going cloud is ones geographic location relative to a data center. If you're in Africa, then sure, the nearest data center is probably in Spain, and that latency might kill you. If you're in the first world though . . . there is no excuse.

Hell of a lot more internet traffic needed, so factor in your ISP cost for a fiber line, when a small business might only require a regular connection otherwise.

But at this point everything under a fiber connection is unusable anyway. I mean, hell, I have fiber at my house for streaming Peppa Pig and shitposting on MHF

[DBTrek]

You're only thinking in the short term though. What's the cost of all those monthly charges over 10-20 years, over server upgrades? 30 years? 50?

Here's an easy equation we can run, while simultaneously tilting the comparison in favor of traditional server closets.

Two network admins at $120,000 a year = $240k.
X 30 years = $7,200,000

One AWS tech at $55k a year + $200 month in AWS services = $57,400/year.
X30 years = $1,722,000

So without calculating ANY of the costs for your server closet build-out and maintenance, the AWS approach already saves you $5.4 million over 30 years.

[SuburbanFarmer]

You're only thinking in the short term though. What's the cost of all those monthly charges over 10-20 years, over server upgrades? 30 years? 50?

Here's an easy equation we can run, while simultaneously tilting the comparison in favor of traditional server closets.

Two network admins at $120,000 a year = $240k.
X 30 years = $7,200,000

One AWS tech at $55k a year + $200 month in AWS services = $57,400/year.
X30 years = $1,722,000

So without calculating ANY of the costs for your server closet build-out and maintenance, the AWS approach already saves you $5.4 million over 30 years.

Nobody is running a business on $200/month of AWS. Look more closely at the charges. https://aws.amazon.com/ec2/pricing/

Even the lowest-level dedicated host is about $40/hour - 24/7/365 = $2.4 million/yr https://aws.amazon.com/ec2/dedicated-hosts/pricing/

I'm not saying you couldn't replace a couple things with it, like long-term storage, or even use it for some overnight processing. That's not the same thing as an active server though.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Of course it's going to be cheaper. You can spend $130 a month to lease the same computing power as a $50,000 server closet. But building the server closet alone isn't the end of your expenses. You'll have to hire a network admin, right? Two at least. And while you're paying them their salary, their medical insurance, their 401k, etc, etc, they can only do so much in a day.

Let's say you buy your server closet ($50k) and hire your two network admins ($200k/year), and suddenly find that you need *more* storage and computing than you have. Well crap. Now you're going to have to buy more hardware and take your two network admins off the business of administering your network so they can start the buildout. How much will that be?

Or, you know, with AWS you could up your monthly payment to $150 a month instead of $130 a month, and then scale it back down in the future if the network traffic drops off.

It's the comparable expense between the two that has, in fact, spelled the doom of the server closet.

You're only thinking in the short term though. What's the cost of all those monthly charges over 10-20 years, over server upgrades? 30 years? 50?

But sure - in Dystopian world where everyone goes cloud and Amazon and Microsoft (Salesforce and Hitachi too) suddenly say "Instead of $130 a month you will pay $20,000 a month!", then your business gets killed.
Right before their cloud businesses get killed from lack of paying customers.

Those paying customers would likely put up with a price increase, once they're locked into the system.

The only real argument against going cloud is ones geographic location relative to a data center. If you're in Africa, then sure, the nearest data center is probably in Spain, and that latency might kill you. If you're in the first world though . . . there is no excuse.

Hell of a lot more internet traffic needed, so factor in your ISP cost for a fiber line, when a small business might only require a regular connection otherwise.

But at this point everything under a fiber connection is unusable anyway. I mean, hell, I have fiber at my house for streaming Peppa Pig and shitposting on MHF

LOL damn dude... I don't think we're talking about the same thing.

Fiber = dedicated FiberOptic cable. Those are used as the backbone of the Internet, and for large businesses. Typically 500Mbps to 1Gbps connections.

If you mean that your building has a fiber connection or something, I'd be interested to see a speedtest.net readout of what kind of speeds you get.

[The Conservative]

Walk around the office with a WiFi scanner, and see if you're crossing channels, and what your signal coverage looks like. It's also very possible that the traffic is too high for your ISP connection.


That's normal, unless I misunderstand you. Your WiFi traffic should all be routed to your router.


You have to log in via VPN on the internal network? Or do you mean for internal to external connection?



That's a setting in your router. It does take some know-how to navigate Cisco systems, but you can definitely set max users, or filter devices.

The problem is that there is no way of knowing, the way they have it set up they completely circumvented the logging system... so no traffic is being recorded. Like I said, they broke it, and I need to tare it down and build it back up. The problem is that we pay $2500 a year for Dell support and they aren't providing it.

I'd have to get into your system to see what you're talking about. You can re-enable data logging on the router though, at whatever level you need to.
Cancel the Dell support.

Did you not read my OP?

So today, since 9:00AM EST to almost 10:00AM EST I was on chat with Dell, their Business branch, their support, sales, and then their desktop support for some reason (yes 4 different branches) each one told me they can't help. If they can't help, who can?

If none of them could get me answers, do you honestly think "Dell Support" will answer my questions any better? Seriously do you comprehend at all?

[SuburbanFarmer]

The problem is that there is no way of knowing, the way they have it set up they completely circumvented the logging system... so no traffic is being recorded. Like I said, they broke it, and I need to tare it down and build it back up. The problem is that we pay $2500 a year for Dell support and they aren't providing it.

I'd have to get into your system to see what you're talking about. You can re-enable data logging on the router though, at whatever level you need to.
Cancel the Dell support.

Did you not read my OP?

So today, since 9:00AM EST to almost 10:00AM EST I was on chat with Dell, their Business branch, their support, sales, and then their desktop support for some reason (yes 4 different branches) each one told me they can't help. If they can't help, who can?

If none of them could get me answers, do you honestly think "Dell Support" will answer my questions any better? Seriously do you comprehend at all?

Cancel, not contact.

That's twice you've misread my post and tried to blast my reading comprehension. I'm seeing a pattern here.

[The Conservative]

I'd have to get into your system to see what you're talking about. You can re-enable data logging on the router though, at whatever level you need to.
Cancel the Dell support.

Did you not read my OP?

So today, since 9:00AM EST to almost 10:00AM EST I was on chat with Dell, their Business branch, their support, sales, and then their desktop support for some reason (yes 4 different branches) each one told me they can't help. If they can't help, who can?

If none of them could get me answers, do you honestly think "Dell Support" will answer my questions any better? Seriously do you comprehend at all?

Cancel, not contact.

That's twice you've misread my post and tried to blast my reading comprehension. I'm seeing a pattern here.

I have been dealing with Dell and lack of sleep for the past 2 days, you are lucky you aren't getting me responding to the wrong messages all together.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Did you not read my OP?



If none of them could get me answers, do you honestly think "Dell Support" will answer my questions any better? Seriously do you comprehend at all?

Cancel, not contact.

That's twice you've misread my post and tried to blast my reading comprehension. I'm seeing a pattern here.

I have been dealing with Dell and lack of sleep for the past 2 days, you are lucky you aren't getting me responding to the wrong messages all together.

I haven't slept well either. Working off a pretty nasty cold.

Anyway, your setup isn't totally pooched.. Just try to work it over before you spend money on a new one.

[The Conservative]

Cancel, not contact.

That's twice you've misread my post and tried to blast my reading comprehension. I'm seeing a pattern here.

I have been dealing with Dell and lack of sleep for the past 2 days, you are lucky you aren't getting me responding to the wrong messages all together.

I haven't slept well either. Working off a pretty nasty cold.

Anyway, your setup isn't totally pooched.. Just try to work it over before you spend money on a new one.

I have been. Hence why I'm working on simplifying things.