NHL 2017 -Official Discussion Thread

[SilverEagle]

The power of the Penguins is the same thing the Leafs had, just on steroids, three lines which can kill you, a Crosby line, a Malkin line, and a Kessel line, there's nobody in the West who has three lines which can match that, and they only have one checking line, which cannot shut down all three lines on Pitt, this is how the Leafs punched above their weight class, a Matthews line, a Marner line, and a Kadri line, but the Penguins, are in a much havier wieght class to start off with.

Three lines are harder to shut down then one, but you can still shut them down enough to win a seven game series, especially with Fleury in net and Letang injured. This unstoppable bullshit is in your mind. It's a good way to cover their deficiencies on the defense and in net, but the Pens are just not anywhere near as good as you think they are.

You do realize that you're the only one on your side of the argument right?

[StCapps]

The Pens have depth, the remaining teams in the West don't.

The Pens depth is hurt and if their big boys go silent their depth wont be enough to carry the defense and goaltending to a Stanley Cup. It never has and it never will. Also the Pens aren't depthier than the Western teams, especially on defense. They have big money players to pay and can't afford the depth that Western teams have, it's that simple.

The only time that the Pens have won the cup under Crosby, their Defense and Goaltending stepped up big time when it mattered most and the offense from Crosby and Malkin slowed down. If the Pens can't do that this year, then they can't win the Cup.

[StCapps]

You do realize that you're the only one on your side of the argument right?

You do realize that argument ad populum is a logical fallacy right?

[Smitty-48]

I mean, the "depth scorer" on the Penguins, is Phill the Thrill, and I've seen Phill Kessel put a team on his back before, the Leafs got to game seven against the Bruins, when they had no business even being in the playoffs, and that was all Phill Kessel, and on the Penguins, he's a third liner.

Rarely does a Franchise player putting his team on his back result in a cup being won. That shit doesn't happen, especially when the Pens have won the cup under Crosby, it hasn't been him and Malkin carrying the team, it was the depth, defense, and goaltending stepping up when they actually did win. It always comes down to depth, defense and goaltending. The Franchise Players firing on all cylinders is a cherry on top, it's not what drives the Pens to win Stanley Cups.

Boston did it to the Leafs, the vastly deeper Boston couldn't stop a beachball for three straight games, they let the Leafs off the mat down 3-1, Phill Kessel singlehandedly got the Leafs to game seven, Boston was staring elimination in the face, and then all of sudden, Patrice Bergeron woke up, the Leafs couldn't win a draw to save their lives, they couldn't get possession, Boston just kept throwing Bergeron over the boards, and there was nothing the Leafs could do to stop him, one guy, completely unravelled the Leafs, in only ten minutes. Wasn't James Riemer's fault, the Leafs just couldn't get the puck away from Bergeron, Bergeron scored the game tying goal with 50 seconds on the clock, then he scored in overtime, Wunderwaffen FTW.

[StCapps]

Boston did it to the Leafs, the vastly deeper Boston couldn't stop a beachball for three straight games, they let the Leafs off the mat down 3-1, Phill Kessel singlehandedly got the Leafs to game seven, Boston was staring elimination in the face, and then all of sudden, Patrice Bergeron woke up, the Leafs couldn't win a draw to save their lives, they couldn't get possession, Boston just kept throwing Bergeron over the boards, and there was nothing the Leafs could do to stop him, one guy, completely unravelled the Leafs, in only ten minutes. Wasn't James Riemer's fault, the Leafs just couldn't get the puck away from Bergeron, Bergeron scored the game tying goal with 50 seconds on the clock, then he scored in overtime, Wunderwaffen FTW.

That was against the Leafs in the first round. Boston didn't win a cup on the back of it's Wunderwaffen, they got huge contributions from their depth players, their defense and their goaltending. That's what won them the cup. Bergeron and Chara didn't take the team on their backs alone and carry them to a cup, get real.

You have no good historical examples of a team with a shitty goalie and mediocre at best defense somehow winning the cup being carried on the backs of that teams Wunderwaffen. It has never happened, even Gretzky and Messier had Fuhr to back them up, and that's the closest example to that mark that you have. Marc Andre Fleury is no Grant Fuhr, the Pens defense is trash without Letang, and The Pens offense is nothing compared to the firepower that the Oilers dynasty had. Yet even those OIlers couldn't get by on just their Wunderwaffen, so what makes you think the Pens are the first team in NHL history to pull off this feat?

[Smitty-48]

Chicago's cups are all Toews, Kane, Keith and Seabrook, the goalie didn't even matter, they won with Anti Niemi, who sucks, Pittsburg won with Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, and Letang, Matt Murray was just some rookie they called up from the AHL, the rest of the Penguins D was no-name, so there's five cups right there, right thur.

[StCapps]

Chicago's cups are all Toews, Kane, Kieth and Seabrook, the goalie didn't even matter, they won with Anti Niemi, who sucks, Pittsburg won with Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, and Letang, Matt Murray was just some rookie they called up from the AHL, the rest of the Penguins D was no-name, so there's five cups right there, right thur.

Every year that Blackhawks won the Cup, their depth, defense and goaltending stepped up. Kane and Toews never carried them to a Cup all by themselves. Every year that wunderwaffen was the only thing going for the Hawks, and their defense and goaltending wasn't up to snuff, they lost. This years Blackhawks are the quintessential example of team who has far less depth than in years past but who focuses too much it's wunderwaffen and then if they slow down in the playoffs the team has no answer. The wunderwaffen are streaky and lack consistency, you need more than just an incredible wunderwaffen to win the Cup.

The Blackhawks are proof that just focusing on a wunderwaffen is never enough to win the cup, you need everyone contributing. That's the difference between the years that the Hawks won the cup, and the years that they did not.

[Smitty-48]

Everybody steps up in the playoffs, Tyler Bozak stepped up in the playoffs, Kasperi Kapanen scored a game winning goal in overtime, but that don't make the Leafs a contender, the only thing that got the Leafs to the playoffs in the first place, was Auston Matthews, no Auston Matthews, not going anywhere, doesn't matter who steps up, in game six, the Leafs lost because they couldn't score, wasn't the goalie's fault, wasn't the defense's fault, they just could not score, the only guy who could score at that point, was Matthews, but even Matthews was not enough, because with just one guy, any team can shut that down.. on the other hand, if the second line was Malkin, and the third line was Kessel, whole nother ball game...

[StCapps]

Everybody steps up in the playoffs, Tyler Bozak stepped up in the playoffs, Kasperi Kapanen scored a game winning goal in overtime, but that don't make the Leafs a contender, the only thing that got the Leafs to the playoffs in the first place, was Auston Matthews, no Auston Matthews, not going anywhere, doesn't matter who steps up, in game six, the Leafs lost because they couldn't score, wasn't the goalies fault, wasn't the defenses fault, they just could ot score, the only guy who could score at that point, was Matthews, but Matthews was not enough, on the other hand, if the second line was Malkin, and the third line was Kessel, whole nother ball game...

You need both the depth and the wunderwaffen to step up in order to win a Cup, and the Pens only have the wunderwaffen, not good enough. They need the depth scoring, defense and goaltending to go with their wunderwaffen, or the wunderwaffen won't mean jack.

Letang is out and Fleury is in, that a big setback from where they were last year, and last year their wunderwaffen wasn't enough to carry the team to a cup all on their own, so what makes you think they are somehow up to it now?

[Smitty-48]

You need both and the Pens only have the wunderwaffen. Not good enough.

The Pens depth always steps up though, Connor Sheary and Bryan Rust, who the hell are those guys? They Pens, like every other team, have a supporting cast, everybody has one of those, that ain't no thang, but on the Pens, they have Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, and what that actually does, is make their role players believe, believe that anything is possible, and that goes straight to their legs, the Pens are the best team in the league, when it comes to squeezing more for less out of their depth. They just keep swapping these guy's out, totally interchangeable, the depth doesn't make the difference to the Wunderwaffen, the Wunderwaffen makes the difference to the depth.

Every player will tell, it's all about the stars, the stars are the only thing that makes the differene, otherwise the teams are totally the same.