International sports bar

[StCapps]

So, in order to maintain the level playing field, we should just open up the rules, and hope that everybody ends up with the same stuff, and ignore the health problems... That's not an answer.

Opening it up and regulating it will lead to less abuse and less health problems, the black market doesn't do it better, sorry bro.

It's like I said, you just want to feel like you are doing something, even if you are making the problems you want to solve worse. Get out of your own way, banning PEDs solves nothing, it's detrimental to athlete health and safety, it's detrimental to a level playing field, everything you think it's in place to prevent, it exacerbates. The sports media and the governing bodies of sports have lied to the fans about the best way to handle this, for political reasons and/or out of ignorance, they don't have a clue of how to fix squat, so they take token measures to appease the rubes.

[SuburbanFarmer]

So, in order to maintain the level playing field, we should just open up the rules, and hope that everybody ends up with the same stuff, and ignore the health problems... That's not an answer.

Opening it up will lead to less abuse and less health problems, the black market doesn't do it better, sorry bro. Like I said you just want to feel like you are doing something, even if you are making the problems you want to solve worse. Get out of your own way, banning PEDs solves nothing, it's detrimental to athlete health and safety, it's detrimental to a level playing field, everything you think it's in place to prevent, it exacerbates.

I guess that's fine, if you don't want sports to exist as a thing anymore.

Let's play it out then: StC has opened up all PED rules in sports. It's an open field now. Here comes Pfizer and Merck to sell us The Ultimate Enhancer. New cola wars erupt in performance chemicals. Still not prescribed or anything, so people start jacking as much as they can, and more. A few months later, athletes' hearts begin exploding, and the world is mystified.

As the game goes on, the college-level athletes discover that they can get an advantage by jacking chemicals. Then the high-schoolers. Then youth leagues. Now everybody is on PEDs, just in case Timmy has a chance at the Big Leagues one day. Some sad losers don't get the best chemicals from their parents and wash out of the system.

Now, athletes are routinely super-sized freaks, easily spotted among the general population, and eventually segregated out. They become show horses, or a gladiator class. Bred and caged for performance from childhood. Luckily, by now, we've reached the level of gene-editing technology to enable parents to breed top-level athletes from the womb. Training begins as toddlers, and continues until heart-explosion, or mental breakdown. The Great State is Glorified.

Or... we just ban the shit and do our best to limit it.

[StCapps]

I guess that's fine, if you don't want sports to exist as a thing anymore.

Let's play it out then: StC has opened up all PED rules in sports. It's an open field now. Here comes Pfizer and Merck to sell us The Ultimate Enhancer. New cola wars erupt in performance chemicals. Still not prescribed or anything, so people start jacking as much as they can, and more. A few months later, athletes' hearts begin exploding, and the world is mystified.

Regulation, not the wild west, god you're strawmanning faggot. Hearts will not explode, silly fearmonger who knows fuck all about PEDs.

As the game goes on, the college-level athletes discover that they can get an advantage by jacking chemicals. Then the high-schoolers. Then youth leagues. Now everybody is on PEDs, just in case Timmy has a chance at the Big Leagues one day. Some sad losers don't get the best chemicals from their parents and wash out of the system.

Kids shouldn't be taking the stuff long term, doctors won't prescribe them the drugs to abuse like that, or they'll be out of a job, sued out the ass and imprisoned, if they are caught.

Now, athletes are routinely super-sized freaks, easily spotted among the general population, and eventually segregated out. They become show horses, or a gladiator class. Bred and caged for performance from childhood. Luckily, by now, we've reached the level of gene-editing technology to enable parents to breed top-level athletes from the womb. Training begins as toddlers, and continues until heart-explosion, or mental breakdown. The Great State is Glorified.

Or... we just ban the shit and do our best to limit it.

Super Drugs will turn people into mutants that aren't even human, yeah you sure know your stuff when it comes to PEDs.


Go home you're drunk, you don't know shit about PEDs, yet you think your opinion of them is so important that there should be a rule against them, fuck off sport killer. You are just par for the course when it comes to shitty PED arguments, you go to the same set of fallacies that they really on to make a case against these drugs, and it makes debate with y'all really quite predictable. I could fend y'all of with one arm tied behind my back without breaking a sweat, because y'all bring no good arguments to the table it requires almost no effort.

[SuburbanFarmer]

I guess that's fine, if you don't want sports to exist as a thing anymore.

Let's play it out then: StC has opened up all PED rules in sports. It's an open field now. Here comes Pfizer and Merck to sell us The Ultimate Enhancer. New cola wars erupt in performance chemicals. Still not prescribed or anything, so people start jacking as much as they can, and more. A few months later, athletes' hearts begin exploding, and the world is mystified.

Regulation, not the wild west, god you're strawmanning faggot. Hearts will not explode, silly fearmonger who knows fuck all about PEDs.

As the game goes on, the college-level athletes discover that they can get an advantage by jacking chemicals. Then the high-schoolers. Then youth leagues. Now everybody is on PEDs, just in case Timmy has a chance at the Big Leagues one day. Some sad losers don't get the best chemicals from their parents and wash out of the system.

Kids shouldn't be taking the stuff long term, doctors won't prescribe them the drugs to abuse like that, or they'll be out of a job, sued out the ass and imprisoned, if they are caught.

Now, athletes are routinely super-sized freaks, easily spotted among the general population, and eventually segregated out. They become show horses, or a gladiator class. Bred and caged for performance from childhood. Luckily, by now, we've reached the level of gene-editing technology to enable parents to breed top-level athletes from the womb. Training begins as toddlers, and continues until heart-explosion, or mental breakdown. The Great State is Glorified.

Or... we just ban the shit and do our best to limit it.

Super Drugs will turn people into mutants that aren't even human, yeah you sure know your stuff when it comes to PEDs.


Go home you're drunk, you don't know shit about PEDs, yet you think your opinion of them is so important that there should be a rule against them, fuck off sport killer.

Ok, so they're prescribed now. So every single athlete comes up with a disability of whatever-it-takes to get the top chemicals. The black market roars back to life, but worse, because now the chemicals are absolutely required in order to compete.

Same as now, but worse.

[Montegriffo]

The question is, do you want the champion to be the person who has the best natural genetics, training, skill, coaches etc or the person who has the best pharmacist.
What you end up with if you allow PEDs is a race to produce the most effective drugs. Stronger and stronger drugs with potentially more and more side effects leading to un-natural freaks in empty stadiums dying or permanantly damaging their bodies at an early age with no sponsorship other than ICI and glaxosmithkline.
In the end you kill off competetive sports for all but a few steroid adicts.

[StCapps]

[Ok, so they're prescribed now. So every single athlete comes up with a disability of whatever-it-takes to get the top chemicals. The black market roars back to life, but worse, because now the chemicals are absolutely required in order to compete.

Same as now, but worse.

No the black market gets it's market share eaten. Same as now except better. Taking the best supplements is not required for success, it merely helps. You don't need to take the PEDs to compete, it just helps in some cases, some things labeled as Performance Enhancers by governing bodies don't even enhance performance, and as long as you are doing supplements the right way and avoiding major health concerns under proper medical supervision, that sounds a whole lot better than what we have now.

You aren't helping Jimmy by banning PEDs, you just think you are because you're ignorant.

@monte
The person who has the best pharmacist doesn't always win, and losers get caught taking PEDs more often than winners, y'all live in a fantasy world if you think that winners who get caught on PEDs only won because they cheated. Y'all are talking out of your asses, you just assume anyone who "cheats" in sports did so only because that it was decisive enough to make the difference between winning and losing, and that's a dumb assumption. You embellish the edge PEDs give people, that is, if you honestly believe the bullshit you spout.

[SuburbanFarmer]

[Ok, so they're prescribed now. So every single athlete comes up with a disability of whatever-it-takes to get the top chemicals. The black market roars back to life, but worse, because now the chemicals are absolutely required in order to compete.

Same as now, but worse.

No the black market gets it's market share eaten. Same as now except better. Taking the best supplements is not required for success, it merely helps. You don't need to take the PEDs to compete, it just helps in some cases, some things labeled as Performance Enhancers by governing bodies don't even enhance performance, and as long as you are doing supplements the right way and avoiding major health concerns under proper medical supervision, that sounds a whole lot better than what we have now.

You aren't helping Jimmy by banning PEDs, you just think you are because you're ignorant.

I disagree, but I haven't even addressed the biggest issue here.

Why do I, as a fan, want to watch a sport where the guy with the best chemist has even a minute advantage? Why would anyone? Again, the ENTIRE POINT of sports is for humans to compete on a level field. Should I get a readout "Tale of the Tape" with their various enhancements before the match begins? Should I argue in perpetuity about "Pre-PED" stats vs. "Post-PED" stats? No. I won't. And neither will anyone else.

Without the fans, there is no sport. So again, as I said before, this is great, unless you want sports to remain a thing.

[StCapps]

The best chemist doesn't win. PEDs are not the super drugs you think they are. PEDs can't turn someone who is average into some unstoppable freak of nature, you seem to believe they can, I assure you they can't. They give competitors an edge in competition, but it is not the decisive edge that you imagine out of ignorance of PEDs.

[SuburbanFarmer]

The best chemist doesn't win. PEDs are not the super drugs you think they are. PEDs can't turn someone who is average into some amazing, you seem to believe they can, I assure you they can't.

Yet. You start a cola war between sports companies, and you will see crazy shit within a year. The market will be flooded with them.

And again, it doesn't have to be that big a difference to kill sports. Remember the homerun derby between Sosa, Bonds, and McGwire? Those stats have a big fucking asterisk on them.

[Montegriffo]

Taking the best supplements is not required for success, it merely helps.

You are contradicting yourself now. If PEDs help everyone is going to use them. This is what lead to widespread cheating in cycling, everyone took drugs because they couldn't compete without them.
Of the 8 atheletes who lined up in that 100m final where Ben Johnson got disqualified all but one went on to get caught using drugs.