The, "All Things English" thread

[TheReal_ND]

In terms of Hitler and Stalin, Stalin betrays Hitler first.

Stalin and Hitler agree to invade Poland at the same time.

Stalin however holds back for a week when Germany goes in.

That is the week where Britain and France declare war on Germany, but not the Soviets.

Stalin lures Hitler into the trap, because Stalin wants the British, French and Germans to go to war with each other again.

The plan being for Stalin to invade from the East once they had exhausted themselves in the trenches.

What Stalin is not expecting is for Germany to win in the West in six weeks.

This is what throws a monkey wrench into Stalin's attack plans.

Stalin then tries to stall for time by sucking up to Hitler.

Hitler however rounds on him, in order to beat Stalin to the punch, which he does.

I no longer believe this to be true. I believe Stalin saw Hitler coming a mile away. I believe he made deliberate sacrifices to encourage what Hitler did. I believe there was a ruling interest that oversaw both interested parties the entire time. Really, this is reminiscent of old Anglo empire tacticts. Instead of stamping out dissention, coopt someone who would be in their pocket early on.

[Smitty-48]

I no longer believe this to be true. I believe Stalin saw Hitler coming a mile away. I believe he made deliberate sacrifices to encourage what Hitler did. I believe there was a ruling interest that oversaw both interested parties the entire time. Really, this is reminiscent of old Anglo empire tacticts. Instead of stamping out dissention, coopt someone who would be in their pocket early on.

Stalin knew Hitler would attack eventually.

But his plans to prevent it by inciting a war in the west were dashed by the stunning German victory in six weeks, which he could not have predicted. Stalin was preparing for it to be like the last war, a bloody stalemate.

After that, clearly Stalin knew that the Germans would be coming.

As I say tho, his backup plan was to stall for time and try to keep Hitler onside until the Soviets could complete their build up on the German frontier.

Hitler simply preempted Stalin by going early. Stalin was right, Hitler was not planning to attack until Germany had built the Nazi super army to do it, which was projected to be in 1945.

Instead, spurned on by their brilliant encirclement victory in the West, the German's decided that they couldn't wait and didn't have to wait, because they would use encirclement war to overcome the mass of the Red Army.

Also part of the plan sucessfully executed, was that the encirclement would include capturing the Soviet tanks and then turning them back around against Moscow, in order to make up for the German shortage of tanks.

[brewster]

Churchill was a far bigger warmonger than Adolf Hitler, wise up, stop believing bullshit.

You guys have gone down the fucking rabbit hole. Lets look at the 1930s, Hitler spend them turning Germany from a democracy into a militarized authoritarian state and persecuting minorities to pursue a racist ideology. Churchill wrote books to put food on the table, was a back bencher in Parliament, and not in government at all till Britain declared war. How the fuck did he cause the war? If you're going to revise history, at least work it around the know facts, don't be lazy.

[Smitty-48]

Hitler WAS a menace to civilization.

Not at all. Hitler was a menace to the British and French Empires, India, Indochina and the Far East.

Hitler was a menace to the Bolsheviks. Hitler was a menace to the Untermensch of Europe.

Hitler was not however a menace to America.

Mahanian Eternal Seapower could easily have contained Hitler without having to save the Europeans from themselves.

[Smitty-48]

The problem for FDR was that the Wall Street banks had bailed the British and French out in 1916.

So now the British and French were paying the vig on that debt to America.

So Hitler would have wiped those assets out if he had seized them.

Ergo America entered the war to protect its British and French investments.

[TheReal_ND]

Lets look at the 1930s, Hitler spend them turning Germany from a democracy into a militarized authoritarian state and persecuting minorities to pursue a racist ideology.

Jew, are you sure you want to go down the Weimar rabbi hole?

[brewster]

Hitler WAS a menace to civilization.

Not at all. Hitler was a menace to the British and French Empires, India, Indochina and the Far East.

Hitler was a menace to the Bolsheviks. Hitler was a menace to the Untermensch of Europe.

Hitler was not however a menace to America.

Mahanian Eternal Seapower could easily have contained Hitler without having to save the Europeans from themselves.

So basically even though he was a menace to most of the Eurasian continent, he was not a (immediate) menace to North America, so all was good. I didn't think all of you were Nazi fucks like douchedog, I guess I was wrong.

[Smitty-48]

Hitler WAS a menace to civilization.

Not at all. Hitler was a menace to the British and French Empires, India, Indochina and the Far East.

Hitler was a menace to the Bolsheviks. Hitler was a menace to the Untermensch of Europe.

Hitler was not however a menace to America.

Mahanian Eternal Seapower could easily have contained Hitler without having to save the Europeans from themselves.

So basically even though he was a menace to most of the Eurasian continent, he was not a (immediate) menace to North America, so all was good. I didn't think all of you were Nazi fucks like douchedog, I guess I was wrong.

Has nothing to do with being a Nazi, National Socialist Post Scarcity Utopia balderdash is not my thing.

The point is that America was already a power unto itself which could handle Germany without having to go to war for the route to the British and French Empires at Suez.

It's Britain and France's war with Germany, not America's.

In terms of not being able stomach the Nazis, the Soviets were no better and they ended up being America's ally.

[Smitty-48]

It's like America is fighting for the British Raj in India and French Indochina.

The British and French are not freedom lovers anymore than the Germans are.

It's not two democracies and one tyranny.

It's three tyrannical European empires.

[StCapps]

Knowing our history doesn't make us pro-Nazi, we just don't buy the propaganda about Churchill being a saint because he declared war on Hitler. Some ignorant motherfuckers might buy that, but you can't snow us with that nonsense.