The gentle hand of vibrant diversity will be seeing you off to the next world

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

Your day will come.

Since everyone is telling you to fuck off for your opinion on some of the trials that may await us all, I will add.

Fuck off! You don't know me!

I'm gonna burn the fuck out, not fade away!

[MilSpecs]

Your day will come.

Since everyone is telling you to fuck off for your opinion on some of the trials that may await us all, I will add.

Fuck off! You don't know me!

I'm gonna burn the fuck out, not fade away!

[DrYouth]

I dunno it's pretty clear to me.

What Okee is objecting to is that we seem to have given up that any of this is possible.

The idea that anything but the nuclear family is possible escapes us.

Milspecs isn't wrong... it does seem nearly impossible that nothing but two incomes can pay the rent.
Employers certainly don't encourage women to take extended maternity leaves.
As a society we don't seem to value mutual care.

Women who choose to remain at home to care for children or the elderly are often looked down on and socially isolated to the point where they lose their sanity. Men rarely perform this care... and may not recognize the burden this places on women... seeing them as weak or incompetent when the burden crushes their spirits, when their social network abandons them. The truth is that is a social enterprise, not an individual one.

So the realities of daycare, after school care and elder care are part of our culture in such a way as that they seem completely inevitable.

It takes social capital to create a society of mutual care and we have spent that social capital on our social experiment.
At the centre of our society is Work and State (or Private) delivered Care...

I guess Milspecs... you might be right that there are huge barriers to mutual care rather than privatized or state care... but should it be this way? Could there be another way? It's the complacency that it MUST be this way, because "medical reasons" that is pissing off Okee.

[K@th]

I think it's nice when a family has the time and room for an elderly relative to stay with them. I moved in with Nerd when the kids were still young enough to share a bedroom. By the time we left that place, the boys were older, so one of them had to sleep on the couch, because their bedroom was so small they refused to share.

So, we had two adults and two growing teenage boys in a 1,100 SF condo. It was tight. Very tight. To take in my dad would have literally meant someone sleeping in the kitchen or bathtub. (Or get rid of some furniture to make more room in the living room. Whatever... there was no room for person 5, especially a sick older person.

So, there's reality for some. For others who were blessed enough to have a large enough house; cheers. '

We are in a bigger place, now, so if Nerd's mom should need to live with us; we will be able to accommodate her. There would be nobody to take care of her medically, though, unless one of us quits our job.

I truly wish we could get to a place where people stopped judging other people, without knowing their circumstances.

[SuburbanFarmer]

I dunno it's pretty clear to me.

What Okee is objecting to is that we seem to have given up that any of this is possible.

The idea that anything but the nuclear family is possible escapes us.

Milspecs isn't wrong... it does seem nearly impossible that nothing but two incomes can pay the rent.
Employers certainly don't encourage women to take extended maternity leaves.
As a society we don't seem to value mutual care.

Women who choose to remain at home to care for children or the elderly are often looked down on and socially isolated to the point where they lose their sanity. Men rarely perform this care... and may not recognize the burden this places on women... seeing them as weak or incompetent when the burden crushes their spirits, when their social network abandons them. The truth is that is a social enterprise, not an individual one.

So the realities of daycare, after school care and elder care are part of our culture in such a way as that they seem completely inevitable.

It takes social capital to create a society of mutual care and we have spent that social capital on our social experiment.
At the centre of our society is Work and State (or Private) delivered Care...

I guess Milspecs... you might be right that there are huge barriers to mutual care rather than privatized or state care... but should it be this way? Could there be another way? It's the complacency that it MUST be this way, because "medical reasons" that is pissing off Okee.

As always, our forum therapist cuts right to the heart of the matter. Damned glad you're back, doc.

There's a lot of truth to both sides. But railing against the current reality is pretty useless. It is this way, and there's little or nothing that the average consumer can do about it.

[DrYouth]

There's a lot of truth to both sides. But railing against the current reality is pretty useless. It is this way, and there's little or nothing that the average consumer can do about it.

Truth BroCat...

But fatalistic nihilism about our social realities is also less than constructive.

Imagining a different social outcome is what forums like this should be all about... isn't it?

Oh ya... that and the LULZ!

Good to be back!

[MilSpecs]

I dunno it's pretty clear to me.

What Okee is objecting to is that we seem to have given up that any of this is possible.

The idea that anything but the nuclear family is possible escapes us.

Milspecs isn't wrong... it does seem nearly impossible that nothing but two incomes can pay the rent.
Employers certainly don't encourage women to take extended maternity leaves.
As a society we don't seem to value mutual care.

Women who choose to remain at home to care for children or the elderly are often looked down on and socially isolated to the point where they lose their sanity. Men rarely perform this care... and may not recognize the burden this places on women... seeing them as weak or incompetent when the burden crushes their spirits, when their social network abandons them. The truth is that is a social enterprise, not an individual one.

So the realities of daycare, after school care and elder care are part of our culture in such a way as that they seem completely inevitable.

It takes social capital to create a society of mutual care and we have spent that social capital on our social experiment.
At the centre of our society is Work and State (or Private) delivered Care...

I guess Milspecs... you might be right that there are huge barriers to mutual care rather than privatized or state care... but should it be this way? Could there be another way? It's the complacency that it MUST be this way, because "medical reasons" that is pissing off Okee.

Well said, doc, glad you’re back!

There could definitely be options and ways to make it work on a societal level. That said, the advanced elderly do require a great deal of skilled nursing care. Things like changing catheters and pulmonary function tests are beyond most of us.

Okee sounds like most young people in that he seems to think that grandma just needs to be fed and kept clean. That could not be more unrealistic for end of life care. To put it in perspective: imagine being told to take your premie home from the hospital and care for him at home. That’s what it’s like in the US when it comes to advanced elderly care. It’s no different from the rest of our healthcare system.

[SuburbanFarmer]

I truly wish we could get to a place where people stopped judging other people, without knowing their circumstances.

Why do you hate Christians, Kath?

[DrYouth]

There could definitely be options and ways to make it work on a societal level. That said, the advanced elderly do require a great deal of skilled nursing care. Things like changing catheters and pulmonary function tests are beyond most of us.

If we chose to invest in quality nursing in the home this would probably be a lot cheaper than nursing care home.
Dieing at home with loved ones is probably infinitely better than living in an institution where you are wired to complex machinery... when it comes to that.

But we have a very uncomfortable time being around the dieing.
Death is taboo in our culture.
Allowing someone to die naturally seems like we are allowing them to die a preventable death. and thus feels a little like killing them.
It makes us extremely uncomfortable.

For this reason we rush our elderly to hospitals and then nursing homes and ultimately deprive them of a natural death among loved ones.
It is done out of love... but it is probably a form of injustice.

[K@th]

It is done out of love... but it is probably a form of injustice.

Putting our elderly/sick/miserable pets out of their misery is done out of love. What we do to our dying is selfish. (And ridiculously expensive and wasteful.)

Now, queue those who think there is no amount of money too great to get a loved one an extra 5 hours on earth.