Why Not Free Speech?

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Martin Hash
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Why Not Free Speech?

Post by Martin Hash » Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:45 pm

I was listening to an interview of James Lindsay & Peter Boghossian on Triggernometry that explained why The Left is against Free Speech.

Social Justice as defined by John Rawls, CAN be rationally derived, meaning logical syllogisms work; it IS objective. But the new ideology, "Critical" Social Justice," rejects The Patriarchy (scientific) aspect of John Rawls, and CANNOT be rationally derived, meaning it is, by definition, SUBJECTIVE, and therefore illogical. Free Speech is actually an artsy word for debate, and debates are won with syllogisms and other logical truisms; so since SJWs cannot win in a debate, they must condemn and outlaw it. Religions fall into this same category of illogic, which is why they rely on faith, and given the chance, will burn Free Speechers at the stake. SJWs do that metaphorically.
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HarryK
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Re: Why Not Free Speech?

Post by HarryK » Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:29 pm

Martin Hash wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:45 pm
I was listening to an interview of James Lindsay & Peter Boghossian on Triggernometry that explained why The Left is against Free Speech.

Social Justice as defined by John Rawls, CAN be rationally derived, meaning logical syllogisms work; it IS objective. But the new ideology, "Critical" Social Justice," rejects The Patriarchy (scientific) aspect of John Rawls, and CANNOT be rationally derived, meaning it is, by definition, SUBJECTIVE, and therefore illogical. Free Speech is actually an artsy word for debate, and debates are won with syllogisms and other logical truisms; so since SJWs cannot win in a debate, they must condemn and outlaw it. Religions fall into this same category of illogic, which is why they rely on faith, and given the chance, will burn Free Speechers at the stake. SJWs do that metaphorically.
Because of the 1st amendment. So if I don’t yell “fire” in a crowded theater, my free speech is just as valid as yours. :D
One only wonders how much time has been wasted being the “armchair quarterbacks” of the world. Only to know deep down inside we don’t have the stones to actually make it happen.
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Martin Hash
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Re: Why Not Free Speech?

Post by Martin Hash » Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:05 pm

You can certainly yell “fire” in a crowded theater, that’s just and old trope. There’s no law against it.
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The Conservative
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Re: Why Not Free Speech?

Post by The Conservative » Tue Aug 04, 2020 7:32 am

Martin Hash wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:05 pm
You can certainly yell “fire” in a crowded theater, that’s just and old trope. There’s no law against it.
Schenck v. United States in 1919

No law, but statute.
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Martin Hash
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Re: Why Not Free Speech?

Post by Martin Hash » Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:43 am

The Conservative wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 7:32 am
Martin Hash wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:05 pm
You can certainly yell “fire” in a crowded theater, that’s just and old trope. There’s no law against it.
Schenck v. United States in 1919

No law, but statute.
Overturned: Brandenburg v. Ohio in 1969
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The Conservative
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Re: Why Not Free Speech?

Post by The Conservative » Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:18 am

Martin Hash wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:43 am
The Conservative wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 7:32 am
Martin Hash wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:05 pm
You can certainly yell “fire” in a crowded theater, that’s just and old trope. There’s no law against it.
Schenck v. United States in 1919

No law, but statute.
Overturned: Brandenburg v. Ohio in 1969
Yes and no.

Federally, no...

State by state:

https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9A.84.040

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2917.11

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces ... awCode=PEN

We are both wrong and right at the same time I guess?
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Martin Hash
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Re: Why Not Free Speech?

Post by Martin Hash » Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:35 am

In the 1st lecture of First Year Law, students are asked to raise their hand if they think Free Speech is limited by "yelling fire in a crowded theater." (As was on my 1st day.) Almost everybody raises their hand. (I didn't because I don't raise my hand.) The instructor then uses it as an example of common legal tropes that are untrue, and that law students need to clear out their pre-existing notions of what they think The Law is.

p.s. The Ohio statue you linked doesn't even mention "fire" in this context; the California law only means alarm, not speech; and the Washington statute is a misdemeanor that requires an adverse event to trigger. None of them constrain speech.
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The Conservative
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Re: Why Not Free Speech?

Post by The Conservative » Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:44 am

Martin Hash wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:35 am
In the 1st lecture of First Year Law, students are asked to raise their hand if they think Free Speech is limited by "yelling fire in a crowded theater." (As was on my 1st day.) Almost everybody raises their hand. (I didn't because I don't raise my hand.) The instructor then uses it as an example of common legal tropes that are untrue, and that law students need to clear out their pre-existing notions of what they think The Law is.

p.s. The Ohio statue you linked doesn't even mention "fire" in this context; the California law only means alarm, not speech; and the Washington statue is a misdemeanor that requires an adverse event to trigger. None of them constrain speech.
That's the point though, it is dependent on the state and where their definition is. The alarm can be termed as someone yelling a warning.

But again, in this day and age of the triggered, do you really want to debate what you know vs what they think? You may be right, but you'd lose the argument vs the mob.
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Martin Hash
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Re: Why Not Free Speech?

Post by Martin Hash » Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:17 pm

The Mob vs. The Law (Constrained speech is free speech)
The Mob vs. Medicine (Gender is a social construct)
The Mob vs. Science (It's racist)
The Mob vs. Math (It's racist)
The Mob = The Left
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Martin Hash
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Re: Why Not Free Speech?

Post by Martin Hash » Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:21 pm

The Conservative wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:44 am
it is dependent on the state and where their definition is.
Federal preeminence (Brandenburg v. Ohio) supersedes State law.
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