Prosecute Julian Assange ("I love Wikileaks!")

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Speaker to Animals
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Re: Prosecute Julian Assange ("I love Wikileaks!")

Post by Speaker to Animals » Sat Nov 24, 2018 2:37 pm

Ph64 wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 2:35 pm
Speaker to Animals wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 2:07 pm
Because pursuing charges against a foreign national for publishing documents your own people leaked is asinine. The federal government has no jurisdiction there and no crime was committed by Assange in our jurisdiction. If Assange were operating servers inside the US they might have a case.

I think Greenwald was on to the truth of the matter when he suggested Assange should be given immunity in exchange for evidence and testimony regarding the DNC leaks. That might actually be the ultimate plan.

By the way, it's already a crime to publish classified documents. It's not some new sweeping draconian plan. The government just didn't often pursue charges against journalists for doing it in the past, instead punishing the leakers themselves.
Well, it's a gray area in the courts on freedom of the press, but in general 18USC798 should apply... To U.S. residents, covered under the US code.

But that begs the question of why Assange, not a U.S. citizen or resident, should be covered by U.S. law... And if the UK arrests him for whatever reason is he then extraditable to the US under a law that doesn't apply to him as a non-citizen/resident.

He didn't steal/remove the documents himself, nor pay/arrange for their theft (conspiracy), so if he wasn't covered under 18USC798 he technically did no wrong.

If they manage to successfully prosecute him for this it sets a really really horrifying precedent - get some foreign country to arrest someone for jaywalking or something, and drag them back to your country to then charge them for a law that they weren't under the jurisdiction of at the time, but now you claim they are because you got them extradited to your soil.
What happens when Russia demands the extradition of somebody like Rachel Maddow for publishing some documents classified by the Russian government?

The idea that jurisdiction is universal is stupid. We cannot enforce our laws all over the planet, and people defending this never seem to consider what happens when other jurisdictions do the same to us.

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pineapplemike
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Re: Prosecute Julian Assange ("I love Wikileaks!")

Post by pineapplemike » Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:51 am

Manafort held secret talks with Assange in Ecuadorian embassy, sources say
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... an-embassy

Donald Trump’s former campaign manager Paul Manafort held secret talks with Julian Assange inside the Ecuadorian embassy in London, and visited around the time he joined Trump’s campaign, the Guardian has been told.

Sources have said Manafort went to see Assange in 2013, 2015 and in spring 2016 – during the period when he was made a key figure in Trump’s push for the White House.

It is unclear why Manafort would have wanted to see Assange and what was discussed. But the last apparent meeting is likely to come under scrutiny and could interest Robert Mueller, the special prosecutor who is investigating alleged collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia.

A well-placed source has told the Guardian that Manafort went to see Assange around March 2016. Months later WikiLeaks released a stash of Democratic emails stolen by Russian intelligence officers.

Manafort, 69, denies involvement in the hack and says the claim is “100% false”. His lawyers declined to answer the Guardian’s questions about the visits.

In a series of tweets WikiLeaks said Assange and Manafort had not met. Assange described the story as a hoax.

Manafort was jailed this year and was thought to have become a star cooperator in the Mueller inquiry. But on Monday Mueller said Manafort had repeatedly lied to the FBI, despite agreeing to cooperate two months ago in a plea deal. According to a court document, Manafort had committed “crimes and lies” on a “variety of subject matters”.

His defence team says he believes what he has told Mueller to be truthful and has not violated his deal.
juicy if true
Wikileaks fired back at a bombshell Guardian report that Paul Manafort met with Julian Assange in Spring 2016, calling one reporter a “serial fabricator” and denying the meeting ever took place.

“Remember this day when the Guardian permitted a serial fabricator to totally destroy the paper’s reputation,” Wikileaks tweeted shortly after the publication of the report. “[Wikileaks] is willing to bet the Guardian a million dollars and its editor’s head that Manafort never met Assange.”

https://www.mediaite.com/online/war-wik ... -happened/

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Fife
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Re: Prosecute Julian Assange ("I love Wikileaks!")

Post by Fife » Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:52 am

Neocons DGAF. Honestly it's astounding how shameless the Pompeos of the world are; no fucks given.

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Speaker to Animals
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Re: Prosecute Julian Assange ("I love Wikileaks!")

Post by Speaker to Animals » Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:55 am

Wikileaks is calling it a lie and suing Guardian.

If it really is true (a stretch since Guardian is hardly legitimate journalism), it would mean Trump likely considers pardoning Assange in exchange for evidence the DNC hack was a leak, and Rich was likely murdered by the deep state. If that is true, I suspect Assange's life is in danger. He could need exfiltration by somebody like Russian intelligence which also is opposed to the deep state.

The reason the MSM is so committed to this anti-Russia narrative is that Russia is also in a low-intensity conflict with the deep state. This also is why they instinctively believe Trump colluded with Russia, since Trump is trying to break up the deep state from inside the American government.

On the other hand, if it is just a lie (most likely given the only source), then it could be a pre-emptive strike against Assange in case he exposes their likely responsibility in the Seth Rich murder. Carlus made a good point in another thread that Mueller's primary role is to assassinate the characters of the targets of the deep state's illegal spying in the Trump campaign so that they can create the appearance that it was justifiable. Tying one of those people to Assange, and Assange to Russia, even with lies, does just that while casting illegitimate doubt over any evidence Assange dumps with respect to the DNC servers.

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Re: Prosecute Julian Assange ("I love Wikileaks!")

Post by Speaker to Animals » Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:18 am


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pineapplemike
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Re: Prosecute Julian Assange ("I love Wikileaks!")

Post by pineapplemike » Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:46 am

Greenwald is open to it being true, but skeptical. He expands on some of the holes in the article here
It Is Possible Paul Manafort Visited Julian Assange. If True, There Should Be Ample Video and Other Evidence Showing This.
https://theintercept.com/2018/11/27/it- ... wing-this/

The Guardian today published a blockbuster, instantly viral story claiming that anonymous sources told the newspaper that former Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort visited Julian Assange at least three times in the Ecuadorian Embassy, “in 2013, 2015 and in spring 2016.” The article – from lead reporter Luke Harding, who has a long-standing and vicious personal feud with WikiLeaks and is still promoting his book titled “Collusion: How Russia Helped Trump Win the White House” – presents no evidence, documents or other tangible proof to substantiate its claim, and it is deliberately vague on a key point: whether any of these alleged visits happened once Manafort was managing Trump’s campaign.
...
While certain MSNBC and CNN personalities instantly and mindlessly treated the story as true and shocking, other more sober and journalistic voices urged caution and skepticism. The story, wrote WikiLeaks critic Jeet Heer of the New Republic, “is based on anonymous sources, some of whom are connected with Ecuadorian intelligence. The logs of the embassy show no such meetings. The information about the most newsworthy meeting (in the spring of 2016) is vaguely worded, suggesting a lack of certitude.”
...
But the main point is this one: London itself is one of the world’s most surveilled, if not the most surveilled, cities. And the Ecuadorian Embassy in that city – for obvious reasons – is one of the most scrutinized, surveilled, monitored and filmed locations on the planet.
...
This leads to one indisputable fact: if Paul Manafort (or, for that matter, Roger Stone), visited Assange at the Embassy, there would be ample amounts of video and other photographic proof demonstrating that this happened. The Guardian provides none of that.

Then there are the glaring omissions in today’s story. As noted, every guest visiting Assange is logged in through a very intricate security system. While admitting that Manafort was never logged in to the embassy, the Guardian waves this glaring hole away with barely any discussion or attempt to explain it: “Visitors normally register with embassy security guards and show their passports. Sources in Ecuador, however, say Manafort was not logged.”

Why would Manafort visit three times but never be logged in? Why would the Ecuadorian government, led by leftist Rafael Correa, allow life-long right-wing GOP operative Paul Manafort to enter their embassy three times without ever once logging in his visit? The Guardian has no answer.

It’s an especially inexcusable omission for the Guardian not to discuss its significance given that the Guardian itself obtained the Embassy’s visitors logs in May, and – while treating those logs as accurate and reliable – made no mention of Manafort’s inclusion on them. That’s because his name did not appear there (nor, presumably, did Roger Stone’s).

The language of the Guardian story also raises all sorts of questions. Aside from an anonymous source, the Guardian claims it viewed a document prepared by the Ecuadorian intelligence service Senain. The Guardian does not publish this report, but instead quotes a tiny snippet that, as the paper put it, “lists ‘Paul Manaford [sic]’ as one of several well-known guests. It also mentions ‘Russians.'”

That claim – that the report not only asserts Manafort visited Assange but “mentions ‘Russians'” – is a rather explosive claim. What does this report say about “Russians”? What is the context of the inclusion of this claim? The Guardian does not bother to question, interrogate or explain any of this. It just tosses the word “Russians” into its article in connection with Manafort’s alleged visits to Assange, knowing full well that motivated readers will draw the most inflammatory conclusions possible, thus helping to spread the Guardian’s article all over the internet and generate profit for the newspaper, without bothering to do any of the journalistic work to justify the obvious inference they wanted to create with this sloppy, vague and highly manipulative paragraph.
...
It may be true. But only the evidence, which has yet to be seen, will demonstrate that one way or the other.
his twitter is also full of good, pertinent questions regarding this story https://twitter.com/GGreenwald
One day after the huge, viral Guardian/Harding story on Manafort/Assange:
* No other media outlet has confirmed it.
* No videos or photos have emerged showing Manafort there.
* Only one person - @TopherSpiro of the UAE-funded CAP- claims confirmation, but won't say how he knows:
The one person who appeared to suggest he had confirmation for the Guardian story - CAP's @TopherSpiro - clarifies he didn't intend to suggest he had independent information proving it true. So that means nobody has independently purported to confirm it:
There are no negative consequences - only benefits - for media outlets that publish false stories which promote and advance a popular narrative. Just ask NBC News and @KenDilanianNBC

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Re: Prosecute Julian Assange ("I love Wikileaks!")

Post by Montegriffo » Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:58 am

Speaker to Animals wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:18 am
Guardian lies already collapsing.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/1 ... -crumbles/
You can't say the Guardian isn't legitimate journalism then link Gateway Pundit with their record of printing lies.
The Guardian is openly left wing but their journalistic standards are no-where near as low as Gateway Pundit or Breitbart.
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pineapplemike
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Re: Prosecute Julian Assange ("I love Wikileaks!")

Post by pineapplemike » Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:25 pm

all journalism is biased, and in this case, the burden of proof lies with the guardian, not gateway pundit, so, meh

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Speaker to Animals
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Re: Prosecute Julian Assange ("I love Wikileaks!")

Post by Speaker to Animals » Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:36 pm

It's more lugenpresse lies, Monty. The story is already collapsing and Guardian is already in CYA mode. It's really amazing that you keep going back to that poisoned well again and again and again only to get the runs every single time.

Maybe Guardian can finally track down Elvis for us next.
Last edited by Speaker to Animals on Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Prosecute Julian Assange ("I love Wikileaks!")

Post by heydaralon » Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:36 pm

anyonymous source says that all these Trump Russia Collusion stories are a game of six degrees of Kevin Bacon without ever having any proof of the collusion or even defining what the collusion was, and not explaining how that causes tens of millions to vote for trump and a huge number of electoral college vote.
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