Cut the Bull Shit. What would war with North Korea look like?

[BjornP]

How much peer pressure was there in the ranks when you guy's were conscripts? Was everybody keen to do well, or were you stuck with a lot of "I'm just here because this is slightly better than jail" types?

What is defaulters like for those who won't get with the program? Do they pack drill them in the sun until they collapse or just stamp no desserts on their meal card?

I think we might have lower conscript standards than Finland.

It felt more like the compulsion to go to school, as I recall. You may not want to, but since you have to, might as well just do as best as you can or will it turn sour for both yourself and your mates in the long run. On my howitzer crew of eight guys, the mood was in one sense toward "this BS conscription thing we have to do can't be over too soon", but at the same time we were the gun with the highest firing rate, fastest at deployment and redeployment and while our sergeant got a lot of attitude from some of my fellow crew especially in between waits, he didn't need to constantly hover over us to make sure we acted unprofessional. We sorta channelled the "duty sucks" attitude into an increased productivity. It's ok to complain, but cross the threshold unto sitting on your ass, crossing your arms and crying "I don't wanna!", that would have been considered pathetic, childish and nothing anyone would respect.

We did get people who got high on duty. While our regiment achieved some national fame that year after an MP drug bust, there was no tolerance for getting or being high if we were going to the shooting range or live fire excersices. You don't wanna fuck around with that live ammo, much less artillery shells. So, if we knew one of us showed up high in a position that could hurt the rest of us, peer pressure exerted itself and almost always led to the doped up recruit turning himself in to a sergeant or officer. Only time peer pressure didn't work for that, was with a friendless provincial drug dealer/thief. He got reported by the troops instead, and got a mass beating later on - for the stealing, not the getting high part.

We also had some guys, especially in the first two months of recruit training who didn't return to barracks from weekend leave. They got picked up by MP's, put in jail for a day and their service time extended for each day they skipped out. We had three guys who got sent to jail for frequently absconding or commiting crimes on base, and a slightly mentally disabled kid that probably should never have gotten the pass who got sent home. Those who could not keep up with training, of whatever kind, were often set to clean the base for weeds and/or got assigned to driving and handing out supplies. They weren't ordered to march extra, or do more PT. If they were too slow in PT, they simply missed out on lunch. And the completely useless ones got that base gardening gig.

Conscription in Denmark has changed quite a lot since I was a conscript, though. It's reduced just four months of compulsory basic recruit training, followed by voluntary specialist training, and nearly two decades of a high rate of volunteers for the military has meant that almost an entire generation haven't served because they had to.

[Smitty-48]

What's army jail like in Denmark? Hard labour? Breaking rocks? Here we call it "filling gabions", because once you break the big rocks into little rocks, then you gotta put the little rocks in sandbags and carry them over to fill the gabions to build the bunkers. That's how we build the command bunkers, anybody on charge, and there's always somebody getting caught for some chickenshit, they just builds em by hand. If there's no gabions to fill, the Engineers just take the rocks for their road building detail, but we still call it "filling gabions".

That's an RSM's threat; "I catch any of you fuckin' around, you'll be filling gabions, don't fuckin' try me..."

First time I heard it, I was like "what does that mean, what's a gabion?" Everybody just rounds on me "STFU, new guy, you don't wanna know" lol.

[BjornP]

Jailtime was simply imprisonment in a little cell at the gate facility. People who disobeyed orders, got into fights, were too drunk or hungover from party in the nearest town, small time theft, or who got picked up by the MP's and escorted back to base were the most common offenders in there. Think the longest anyone sat in there was for a week. Harder criminal offenders got sent to serve out jail time in prison. Afaik, there are no actual military prison complexes, so you serve your time in regular prison.

[ssu]

On my howitzer crew of eight guys, the mood was in one sense toward "this BS conscription thing we have to do can't be over too soon", but at the same time we were the gun with the highest firing rate, fastest at deployment and redeployment and while our sergeant got a lot of attitude from some of my fellow crew especially in between waits, he didn't need to constantly hover over us to make sure we acted unprofessional.

Sounds like artillerymen are the same everywhere. Naturally as a conscript you are counting your days when it all ends, the classic thing to do is to get a comb and count with it how many mornings you have.



For few years you don't want to hear anything about the military. Then after some more years you start to miss the damn thing and the guys and start wait for refresher excersizes. Naturally the excersizes won't come because of budget cuts. Then in your 30's you'll be happy to get an invitation to refresher training. But at that time when guys would like to have some time off from their wife & the kids and go firing some artillery rounds, they aren't anymore assigned to the battlefield units. Young guys job. And the reservists in their 40's and over the guys are just higher ranking NCO's and officers who love the military and have to be kicked out of the garrison when the excersize ends and will be asking when the next one is. And when you are 60, that's it, your done (excluding colonels and above). Bye.

Conscription in Denmark has changed quite a lot since I was a conscript, though.

Cold War era armies were different. There was a lot in common with the mass armies of WW2. And basically the society was then different too.

Reservists in the 80's. Back then a different army...


What is interesting to think about is that WW1 and WW2 had 21 years between them and hence when in 1944 Germany starting to call in WW1 veterans as they had reached bottom of the barrell, they were guys in their 40's and 50's. So how would you feel manning that howitzer now, BjornP?

[ssu]

Jail at least here is a small cell just like you would think it is. You just sit there and get bored. Was once on duty (before NCO school) with MP's manning the front gate of the garrison. Had no inmates in the cells then. Easy but boring service. Earlier times they had the conscripts guarding the Gates with assault rifles with live-ammo, but after some incident you basically were given (in the early 1990's) just a long baton. Now it's just the MP's used in guard duties.

[BjornP]

For few years you don't want to hear anything about the military. Then after some more years you start to miss the damn thing and the guys and start wait for refresher excersizes. Naturally the excersizes won't come because of budget cuts. Then in your 30's you'll be happy to get an invitation to refresher training. But at that time when guys would like to have some time off from their wife & the kids and go firing some artillery rounds, they aren't anymore assigned to the battlefield units. Young guys job. And the reservists in their 40's and over the guys are just higher ranking NCO's and officers who love the military and have to be kicked out of the garrison when the excersize ends and will be asking when the next one is. And when you are 60, that's it, your done (excluding colonels and above). Bye.

Cold War era armies were different. There was a lot in common with the mass armies of WW2. And basically the society was then different too.

Reservists in the 80's. Back then a different army...


What is interesting to think about is that WW1 and WW2 had 21 years between them and hence when in 1944 Germany starting to call in WW1 veterans as they had reached bottom of the barrell, they were guys in their 40's and 50's. So how would you feel manning that howitzer now, BjornP?

Ah, we don't do refresher training here since the Cold War, and reservists (Hjemmeværnet) are entirely voluntary. And personally, I'm honestly less physically fit and militarily out of the loop, to begin a refresher course after 15 years, than I was ready to begin my first day of conscription. I forgot 95% of what I was taught about combat drills, weapon's maintenance, manning artillery... oh, and we don't use those truck-drawn howitzers we used anymore, either.

Still, while I was already in pretty good shape at first day of conscription in '02, there were loads of conscripts who were in as poor military fitness as I am now. At pre-conscription evaluation, they deem wether you're fit to serve based on if you can be molded and trained to become fit... not so much if you already are. But back then, they did an amazing job, in very short time, of building people's fitness up to acceptable standards. So, I'd dread it abit at first if we got re-called, but I know I'd manage because I had to. As law is now, though, I am obligated only to don the uniform in the case of national defense, which as you can imagine only refers to the actual threatening of national borders by an enemy nation's armed forces.

[Hastur]

How much peer pressure was there in the ranks when you guy's were conscripts? Was everybody keen to do well, or were you stuck with a lot of "I'm just here because this is slightly better than jail" types?

What is defaulters like for those who won't get with the program? Do they pack drill them in the sun until they collapse or just stamp no desserts on their meal card?

As I Said earlier I did my service during the Cold War. Most of us took military service seriously. It was for real back then and there were no doubts about who the enemy was even if we called ourselves neutral.
The conscription tests did a pretty good job putting people where they fitted in. What I learned was that most people wanted to do their best even if they didn't agree on having to be where they happened to be. That was also true for most people, from the brightest and most able down through the ranks to the most simple easy duty grunt.

Most common punishment for defaulters was confinement to barracks during free time of denied home leave. That was enough to keep people in check.

I miss the time when everyone had to do military service. It was something we all had in common and it was an institution that made sure everyone grew the fuck up.

[Viktorthepirate]

Cool stories guys. Interesting read.