Free college in New York

PartyOf5
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Free college in New York

Post by PartyOf5 » Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:49 pm

http://money.cnn.com/2017/04/08/pf/coll ... index.html
Starting this fall, undergraduate students who attend a State University of New York or City University of New York school will be eligible for the Excelsior Scholarship if their families earn no more than $100,000 a year. The income cap will lift to $110,000 next year and will reach $125,000 in 2019.
Those eligible will pay nothing for tuition, which costs $6,470 annually at four-year schools and about $4,350 a year at community colleges.

New York will be the first state to make tuition free for some residents at four-year public colleges.
If they are going to do this, they shouldn't have a hard cap requirement on income. Anyone making just over $100,000 is going to have one of the wage earners cutting back to part time or finding ways to get paid under the table in order to qualify. Is $100,000 even solid middle class for a family in NY state?

Someone should take note of the tuition costs now and in the years following this change. I would not be surprised if the colleges begin jacking up rates even more now that the state is paying for it.

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Martin Hash
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Re: Free college in New York

Post by Martin Hash » Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:54 pm

When I went to Sac State, my tuition was $600 per semester. Engineering. Books were $200. I worked part time to support my wife & me. She went to Sac State too. We had a crummy apt. No loans needed. What the fuck happened?!
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Smitty-48
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Re: Free college in New York

Post by Smitty-48 » Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:55 pm

PartyOf5 wrote: I would not be surprised if the colleges begin jacking up rates even more now that the state is paying for it.
Exactly, that's the whole thing about the "free college" scam, as soon as you hook anything up to the public trough, the perverse incentive of just milking the taxpayers for all they're worth, without producing results, is all consuming, grade school is a completely useless public sector boondoggle, all you do by making college "free" on the backs of the public purse, is turn college into an astromonically expensive high school.

Everybody will have a college diploma to go with their high school diploma, and they will both be equally worthless.
Last edited by Smitty-48 on Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:57 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Speaker to Animals
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Re: Free college in New York

Post by Speaker to Animals » Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:55 pm

Martin Hash wrote:When I went to Sac State, my tuition was $600 per semester. Engineering. Books were $200. I worked part time to support my wife & me. She went to Sac State too. No loans needed. What the fuck happened?!

Government subsidized student loans happened. Usury drives up prices.

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Martin Hash
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Re: Free college in New York

Post by Martin Hash » Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:58 pm

People will pay any amount for status & prestige. But how can you blame them? It works! Me with 3 doctorates or a Business Major from Yale: who gets the job?
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Smitty-48
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Re: Free college in New York

Post by Smitty-48 » Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:03 pm

This issue is where the Leftards are at their most leftarded, "college education gets you a job, ergo, if everybody gets a college education, everybody gets a job"... except, if everybody has a college education, it ceases to be of any greater value by default, and everybody having a college education is not a job creator, unless everybody is going to be college professors, which is probably the definition of utopia for Leftards. Magical Thinking.
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Lemonade
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Re: Free college in New York

Post by Lemonade » Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:10 pm

Governor in my state is trying this. Here, she is being pushed as the new face of the DNC to "get their mojo back at the polls in 2018". :icon-rolleyes:

apeman
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Re: Free college in New York

Post by apeman » Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:54 pm

Smitty-48 wrote:This issue is where the Leftards are at their most leftarded, "college education gets you a job, ergo, if everybody gets a college education, everybody gets a job"... except, if everybody has a college education, it ceases to be of any greater value by default, and everybody having a college education is not a job creator, unless everybody is going to be college professors, which is probably the definition of utopia for Leftards. Magical Thinking.
Exactly right, it's not about the skills/processes you learn, it is about distinguishing yourself from the pack.

Now public college = the new high school.

...

Imagine having just taken on a lot of debt to graduate from a SUNY campus last year.

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Speaker to Animals
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Re: Free college in New York

Post by Speaker to Animals » Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:26 pm

Peter Turchin wrote a book titled Secular Cycles in which he described the cycle of rise and fall of civilization in the west. One of the stages includes a credentials boom in which a lot of people get credentials, making credentials worthless. In the past that would happen in terms of patents of nobility. If I remember correctly, the internecine conflict comes next.

What we are seeing is a kind of credentials boom with credentials in our society, rather than patents of nobility, come as college degrees. But most people are not qualified for college, which made this industry of pseudo-academics so profitable. We have legions of people with degrees in women's studies, and other fake academic programs who have nowhere to go in life. Even amongst STEM degrees we have universities that are making it painfully easy to get the degree as long as students get the enormous loans and feed the beast.

When the credentials bubble bursts, you see a huge conflict amongst the elites who depend upon them.

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Alexander PhiAlipson
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Re: Free college in New York

Post by Alexander PhiAlipson » Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:50 pm

Speaker to Animals wrote:Peter Turchin wrote a book titled Secular Cycles in which he described the cycle of rise and fall of civilization in the west. One of the stages includes a credentials boom in which a lot of people get credentials, making credentials worthless. In the past that would happen in terms of patents of nobility. If I remember correctly, the internecine conflict comes next.

What we are seeing is a kind of credentials boom with credentials in our society, rather than patents of nobility, come as college degrees. But most people are not qualified for college, which made this industry of pseudo-academics so profitable. We have legions of people with degrees in women's studies, and other fake academic programs who have nowhere to go in life. Even amongst STEM degrees we have universities that are making it painfully easy to get the degree as long as students get the enormous loans and feed the beast.

When the credentials bubble bursts, you see a huge conflict amongst the elites who depend upon them.
It's not exactly a new problem. All the credentials in the world will not create a job for you. You may be the most knowledgeable person on any given subject, but that won't get you a job; you could write the most brilliant and informative book of all time, but that won't get it published. The better educated you are, the less likely you'll be to suffer a work related injury. We cannot all study history and have a mother and father in the entertainment industry to ensure (could be insure, in this case) a career as a podcaster like a certain "Dan" with whom many of us are familiar.
The following is a translation from Chaucer's prologue to "The Canterbury Tales." The word clerk here reflects what it has come to mean today, though it had meant, clerk, as in cleric, as in clergy--but there were only so many positions to fill--so, your needlessly overeducated ass might just wind up working in a gas station. (This was written sometime before 1400 AD, so, yeah--nothing new.)

A CLERK from Oxford was there also,
Who'd studied philosophy, long ago.
As lean was his horse as is a rake,
And he too was not fat, that I take,
But he looked emaciated, moreover, abstemiously.
Very worn off was his overcoat; for he
Had got him yet no churchly benefice,
Nor he was worldly to accept secular office.
For he would rather have at his bed's head
Some twenty books, all bound in black or red,
Of Aristotle and his philosophy
Than rich robes, fiddle, or gay psaltery.
Yet, and for all he was philosopher in base,
He had but little gold within his suitcase;
But all that he might borrow from a friend
On books and learning he would swiftly spend,
And then he'd pray diligently for the souls
Of those who gave him resources to attend schools.
He took utmost care and heed for his study.
Not one word spoke he more than was necessary;
And that was said with due formality and dignity
And short and lively, and full of high morality.
Filled with moral virtue was his speech;
And gladly would he learn and gladly teach.
"She had yellow hair and she walked funny and she made a noise like... O my God, please don't kill me! "