Sandy Hook Parents File 1st Argument To Supreme Court

[Montegriffo]

But prevent is an absolute doomed to fail and therefore you could argue that it is not worth trying, whereas reduce is much more obtainable and probably more effective than temporary incarceration or drugging up to the eyeballs which have been shown to be ineffective.
Unless you think mental illness is merely a euphemism for evil in which case an exorcism to force out the demons is the only course of action.

You know me better than that (I think)!

I agree that prevent is doomed to fail. I also believe that we do not have an epidemic of violence and shooting, historically, very safe. That being said, the new-ish phenomenon of mass shooting is a serious problem that requires investigation. And what is the easy solution that is trotted out over and over? More mental health care. But what does that look like? How does it work? How would Lanza have been targeted for mental health services? What would these services do?

I think the "mental health" solution is mostly nonsense, it is a feel-good way to say you have a solution to a problem, but in reality that solution isn't though through. I mean, I we gonna have mandatory mental assessments in public school, where the psych's evaluation of each student has meaningful and lasting effects on their lives? How long does the pysch spend with each student to arrive at these conclusions?

How does any of this actually work IRL?

My use of you was not intended to mean you personally more a general "those who might argue against"

A way to make this actually work IRL could be to have a more inclusive health system rather than one which only treats those with enough money to afford treatment.
I don't even think poor gun control is the cause of school shootings only that it makes them much easier to carry out.
I'm sure that in many cases the signs of mental illness are there to be seen by teachers, friends and family but while "crazy" is seen as a moral defect rather than a disease treatment is dis-incentivised or treated with a nice profitable pharmaceutical solution rather than treating the causes such as bullying or drug abuse which might reflect badly on the school itself.

[clubgop]

What does this have to with hoplophobia and the lefts other rational fear? Because we have a group of individuals that we have no idea how to deal with, society must collectively punished. No guns, no video games, and whatever else the left wants to boogeyman at the time.

[SuburbanFarmer]

But prevent is an absolute doomed to fail and therefore you could argue that it is not worth trying, whereas reduce is much more obtainable and probably more effective than temporary incarceration or drugging up to the eyeballs which have been shown to be ineffective.
Unless you think mental illness is merely a euphemism for evil in which case an exorcism to force out the demons is the only course of action.

You know me better than that (I think)!

I agree that prevent is doomed to fail. I also believe that we do not have an epidemic of violence and shooting, historically, very safe. That being said, the new-ish phenomenon of mass shooting is a serious problem that requires investigation. And what is the easy solution that is trotted out over and over? More mental health care. But what does that look like? How does it work? How would Lanza have been targeted for mental health services? What would these services do?

I think the "mental health" solution is mostly nonsense, it is a feel-good way to say you have a solution to a problem, but in reality that solution isn't though through. I mean, I we gonna have mandatory mental assessments in public school, where the psych's evaluation of each student has meaningful and lasting effects on their lives? How long does the pysch spend with each student to arrive at these conclusions?

How does any of this actually work IRL?

My use of you was not intended to mean you personally more a general "those who might argue against"

A way to make this actually work IRL could be to have a more inclusive health system rather than one which only treats those with enough money to afford treatment.
I don't even think poor gun control is the cause of school shootings only that it makes them much easier to carry out.
I'm sure that in many cases the signs of mental illness are there to be seen by teachers, friends and family but while "crazy" is seen as a moral defect rather than a disease treatment is dis-incentivised or treated with a nice profitable pharmaceutical solution rather than treating the causes such as bullying or drug abuse which might reflect badly on the school itself.

Fine then, "reduce".

Regardless, the current state of mental healthcare is not far from the 19th century methodology. Drug the patient with something, until they stop complaining, and lock them away if dangerous.

We need a serious effort dedicated to researching the causes of mental illness - much moreso, as our society continues to condense into massive clusters of humans stacked on top of each other.

A big part of this is the constant bombardment of cognitive dissonance being blasted at us from every available advertising space.

[Fife]

Immanentize the eschaton, Übermensch! Rock out with your cock out!

[Martin Hash]

Our Lefties are kickin' it.

[Speaker to Animals]

You know me better than that (I think)!

I agree that prevent is doomed to fail. I also believe that we do not have an epidemic of violence and shooting, historically, very safe. That being said, the new-ish phenomenon of mass shooting is a serious problem that requires investigation. And what is the easy solution that is trotted out over and over? More mental health care. But what does that look like? How does it work? How would Lanza have been targeted for mental health services? What would these services do?

I think the "mental health" solution is mostly nonsense, it is a feel-good way to say you have a solution to a problem, but in reality that solution isn't though through. I mean, I we gonna have mandatory mental assessments in public school, where the psych's evaluation of each student has meaningful and lasting effects on their lives? How long does the pysch spend with each student to arrive at these conclusions?

How does any of this actually work IRL?

My use of you was not intended to mean you personally more a general "those who might argue against"

A way to make this actually work IRL could be to have a more inclusive health system rather than one which only treats those with enough money to afford treatment.
I don't even think poor gun control is the cause of school shootings only that it makes them much easier to carry out.
I'm sure that in many cases the signs of mental illness are there to be seen by teachers, friends and family but while "crazy" is seen as a moral defect rather than a disease treatment is dis-incentivised or treated with a nice profitable pharmaceutical solution rather than treating the causes such as bullying or drug abuse which might reflect badly on the school itself.

Fine then, "reduce".

Regardless, the current state of mental healthcare is not far from the 19th century methodology. Drug the patient with something, until they stop complaining, and lock them away if dangerous.

We need a serious effort dedicated to researching the causes of mental illness - much moreso, as our society continues to condense into massive clusters of humans stacked on top of each other.

A big part of this is the constant bombardment of cognitive dissonance being blasted at us from every available advertising space.

Even with all the drugs, we still don't properly use said drugs.

I took some risks and decided to use experimental drugs to treat my condition. After fifteen years, my pain has been on a steady decline, and I have become stronger and fitter in the process.

I am not so sure a person with mental illness could do the same thing, but I don't doubt the solutions already exist, but are ignored by quack doctors in favor of treating symptoms and making even more problems for constant revenue stream.

I think it was in the Art of War where a story was relayed of an emperor asking the most famous doctor in the empire if he was the greatest physician. The physician replied that the greatest physician he ever knew of was totally unknown by society because he cured disease before it became apparent. There was no fame in preempting disease or even curing it simply. Fame was in treating symptoms even then. Now it's not fame so much but the money. But even there.. I am not sure what the deal is with the VA, who want desperately to reduce workloads and actually solve problems since they have no profit motive. They could do what I do far more cheaply than constant pain management through opiates, sleeping pills, etc.

[Montegriffo]

I am not so sure a person with mental illness could do the same thing, but I don't doubt the solutions already exist, but are ignored by quack doctors in favour of treating symptoms and making even more problems for constant revenue stream.

I am not qualified to assert that quack doctors ignore the solutions but treating symptoms along with correcting chemical imbalances seems like an acceptable treatment in some cases.

Paging Dr Youth for a qualified assessment of methods to treat mental illness.........

[Speaker to Animals]

I am not so sure a person with mental illness could do the same thing, but I don't doubt the solutions already exist, but are ignored by quack doctors in favour of treating symptoms and making even more problems for constant revenue stream.

I am not qualified to assert that quack doctors ignore the solutions but treating symptoms along with correcting chemical imbalances seems like an acceptable treatment in some cases.

Paging Dr Youth for a qualified assessment of methods to treat mental illness.........

In some cases, I don't doubt that is necessary. In other cases, I suspect it only masks the underlying problem, causing that problem to manifest in other ways.

Most mental illness in my opinion is psychological in nature, and not really the effect of a chemical imbalance. If there does exist a chemical imbalance, I suspect it's that imbalance that is the effect of the psychological distress.

Any teenager, for example, can work himself up into a mental illness. Keep telling yourself that you have these issues and you will have issues for sure.

I would put more stock in a therapist than a psychiatrist at this point in time. If we were living in the 1950s, I might have a different opinion, since psychiatrists then actually tried to solve the problem through therapy, and some of the drug treatments they experimented with were meant to solve the problem rather than mask it.

But, again, I definitely don't think mental illness is something that we should be self-treating either. Hell, I wish I didn't have to self-treat. I wish fifteen years ago the VA was there to put my in physical therapy (so I didn't have to learn how to do that too), helped rebuild the muscles that had atrophied, and was willing to administer the kinds of drugs that would accelerate the muscle growth so that I could reduce pain. I lost many years to this disease because doctors, both private and government, only treated symptoms rather than actually tried to solve the illness.

[Speaker to Animals]

Additionally, if mental health professionals spent more time in something like psychotherapy, they'd probably be better able to identify people who could potentially be at risk for violence. As it stands, their appointment times I imagine are pretty short, no different than other doctors, in which the person lists their symptoms and the doctor consults their literature to find the drugs prescribed for the diagnosis that matches the symptoms. Where do they get the time to learn who this person is, what brought them to this point, what is broken inside, and where they really are psychologically?

I would be terrified if I had to live in this world we have now with a serious mental illness. Feeling suicidal? Here are some drugs that will fuck up your neurochemistry. If you still feel that way next month, we will just put you on tranquilizers until you feel numb inside. Problem solved.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Additionally, if mental health professionals spent more time in something like psychotherapy, they'd probably be better able to identify people who could potentially be at risk for violence. As it stands, their appointment times I imagine are pretty short, no different than other doctors, in which the person lists their symptoms and the doctor consults their literature to find the drugs prescribed for the diagnosis that matches the symptoms. Where do they get the time to learn who this person is, what brought them to this point, what is broken inside, and where they really are psychologically?

I would be terrified if I had to live in this world we have now with a serious mental illness. Feeling suicidal? Here are some drugs that will fuck up your neurochemistry. If you still feel that way next month, we will just put you on tranquilizers until you feel numb inside. Problem solved.

Exactly the point that I was making.

We need serious funding for research into neurochemistry, and patient therapies..