Is Angela Merkel Pivoting on Immigration?

[The Conservative]

Possibly more economically viable to do it your way but the moral disadvantages of all that killing needs to be taken into consideration.

Countries that cry we would be immoral for doing it need to look in their own back yard first.

[nickle7]

I think the burka thing is a slippery slope for religious tolerance and may have led to some of the alienation and resentment which causes atrocities in France.

...For real, dude? Is it not the individual terrorist's fault? Are they not responsible for their own actions?

Agreed, Xeonphon. The soft bigotry of low expectations... assuming that a person is going to act out in an extreme manner given some form of grievance. Sure, alienation feeds into the atrocities we're seeing, but that reasoning can't stand on its own.

[Montegriffo]

Helps to remember the big picture sometimes. I'm not suggesting you should bend over and take it up the cultural shitter but intolerance is intolerance however you look at it.

[nickle7]

Helps to remember the big picture sometimes. I'm not suggesting you should bend over and take it up the cultural shitter but intolerance is intolerance however you look at it.

I won't comment specifically on the burka ban but tolerance does have a line. For example, we shouldn't be tolerant of individual ideas or whole ideologies that jeopardize further abilities to tolerate. Essentially what I'm saying is we can't be blind in tolerating intolerance. I'm sure that statement comes with a lot of baggage... I'm basically a free speech absolutist. The best way to fight against bad ideas is with good ideas. Ideas vs ideas, not people vs people. We don't ban intolerance through legal means, but through discussion and debate.

[Montegriffo]

I think the burka thing is a slippery slope for religious tolerance and may have led to some of the alienation and resentment which causes atrocities in France.

...For real, dude? Is it not the individual terrorist's fault? Are they not responsible for their own actions?

Agreed, Xeonphon. The soft bigotry of low expectations... assuming that a person is going to act out in an extreme manner given some form of grievance. Sure, alienation feeds into the atrocities we're seeing, but that reasoning can't stand on its own.

No need to straw man here, this is the new world and we aim to leave all that nonsense back in the motherland.
I am not suggesting that reasoning should stand alone. Good intelligence has stood us well in the UK, and you are not going to like this, but some rights to personal freedom may have to be be compromised in order to stop attacks in the future. We have just passed a "snoopers charter" which allows access to personal information under the auspices of monitoring for terrorists in the UK.

[Montegriffo]

Helps to remember the big picture sometimes. I'm not suggesting you should bend over and take it up the cultural shitter but intolerance is intolerance however you look at it.

I won't comment specifically on the burka ban but tolerance does have a line. For example, we shouldn't be tolerant of individual ideas or whole ideologies that jeopardize further abilities to tolerate. Essentially what I'm saying is we can't be blind in tolerating intolerance. I'm sure that statement comes with a lot of baggage... I'm basically a free speech absolutist. The best way to fight against bad ideas is with good ideas. Ideas vs ideas, not people vs people. We don't ban intolerance through legal means, but through discussion and debate.

Agreed.

[nickle7]

...For real, dude? Is it not the individual terrorist's fault? Are they not responsible for their own actions?

Agreed, Xeonphon. The soft bigotry of low expectations... assuming that a person is going to act out in an extreme manner given some form of grievance. Sure, alienation feeds into the atrocities we're seeing, but that reasoning can't stand on its own.

No need to straw man here, this is the new world and we aim to leave all that nonsense back in the motherland.
I am not suggesting that reasoning should stand alone. Good intelligence has stood us well in the UK, and you are not going to like this, but some rights to personal freedom may have to be be compromised in order to stop attacks in the future. We have just passed a "snoopers charter" which allows access to personal information under the auspices of monitoring for terrorists in the UK.

So where do you draw the line? We could sacrifice every one of our personal freedoms and still not stop every future attack. That's nothing but a recipe for authoritarianism and everything that comes with it.

[Montegriffo]

And so is labelling all Islam as a culture of rape and intolerance. I'm not clever enough to have all the answers but I draw the line at senseless restrictions on the wearing of cultural/religious clothing. I have been schooled by one of the Vikings here about France's wishes for a secular nation but when burkinis were banned from a couple of beaches, after the massacre in Nice, no policemen were seen asking Catholic nuns to remove their habits.

[Montegriffo]

To quote Al Murray, we can't have too few rules because that would make us France and we can't have too many rules as that would make us Germany.

[nickle7]

And so is labelling all Islam as a culture of rape and intolerance. I'm not clever enough to have all the answers but I draw the line at senseless restrictions on the wearing of cultural/religious clothing. I have been schooled by one of the Vikings here about France's wishes for a secular nation but when burkinis were banned from a couple of beaches, after the massacre in Nice, no policemen were seen asking Catholic nuns to remove their habits.

Sure. I do agree that the burka ban is an overreach. People should be able to wear what they want. But on the flip side, if women are required to wear the burka, we should be just as opposed to that. Catholic nuns choose to become nuns, obligating them to wear a habit. Women don't choose to be women, so in instances where they are required to wear the burka, it's a non-sequitor to make the comparison to nuns.