THE ERA OF TRUMP

[Smitty-48]

But in Russia it's a great idea. Yep, it works...with casualties perhaps similar to the Yugoslav Civil War and own losses of 20 000+ killed or missing (in two wars). Bravo.
Smartest nations contain a possible insurgency right from the bud. So that they never morph into a popular violent uprising.

Tell you what, the streets of America under Officer Friendly were infinitely more violent than the streets of the Soviet Union under Kommisar Bolshie, nobody ever looked at Kommisar Bolshie funny, they knew enough not to even raise their voices to him let alone lift a finger.

And as for the North Caucasus? Well, that's the Near Abroad, which for the USA is Central America, and if you think the Americans treated their Near Abroad any differently, might want to check with the Salvadorans, Nicaraguans, and Guatemalans on that. 30,000 people killed in Nicaruagua, you think they buried them in a cemetery? No, no, right there in the jungle, mass graves.

If America was like Russia, you wouldn't need any SWAT teams, the Russians aren't a heavily armed population, and they're not free neither, so you know, easily kept in line with the mere of threat of force, without actually having to follow through most of the time.

If Vlad Putin needs to have some Rooskies hauled off to the gulag, he doesn't send Spetzgruppa Alfa, they just have a bunch o' Kremlin Mall Cops show up and drag them away. Kommisar Bolshie, he was never all that scary to look at, even when he worked for Stalin, when the KGB came for you, no manjammies, suits and fedoras. And no BTR's neither, they drove crappy little Lada's.

The Officer Friendly fallacy is a bunch of nonsense, state force is state force, and you're not going to like it when it bears its fangs, doesn't matter what you dress it up like, you could dress it up in a pink clown suit and then everybody would be spooked by clowns when they laid a beatdown on someone for looking at them funny.

The dressing is just evading the issue, which is that all state force is ultimately militarized, so personally, I prefer Officer SWAT, because it makes no bones about it, the less you show it for what it is, the less wary the population is of it, dress it up like Justin Trudeau, and the sheep just all go to sleep again.

[ssu]

And as for the North Caucasus? Well, that's the Near Abroad, which for the USA is Central America

Chechnya was inside Russia. Hence Chechens, just like people in Dagestan, are all Russian citizens. Central America isn't part of the US. A

If America was like Russia, you wouldn't need any SWAT teams, the Russians aren't a heavily armed population

WHOA!

Russia is the goddam paradise for SWAT teams. Government teams, Private ones, or in between (like let's say some large government owned companies can have their "special units") And for crime, let's start with some Basic statistics:



Yep. Russia is somewhere else when it comes to crime to the US. Once a retired (if they can be ever retired) Intel guy here gave a great lecture on the Russian system. Basically it's a system of various different "Power Ministries" under Putin that all have their own military forces and which compete each other on a totally different scale than the US departments fight in the halls of power in Washington. Sure, you have Vlad at the top. But below that it's a typical Russian mess. And do have in the US the intelligence service literally fighting each other on the streets? Russia had that at least once in the near past.

There's so many that you loose count: Sobr, Omon, Alpha, other FSB units, etc.

The dressing is just evading the issue, which is that all state force is ultimately militarized, so personally, I prefer Officer SWAT, because it makes no bones about it, the less you show it for what it is, the less wary the population is of it, dress it up like Justin Trudeau, and the sheep just all go to sleep again.

Really issue how the police operates and does it enjoy the respect and trust of the people. Or is the police a bunch of criminals with badges. Which they are in some countries.

[Smitty-48]

Apples to Oranges fallacy, ssu, none of those Spetsnaz units are SWAT, neither the Federal Security Service nor the Interior Ministry Troops are police, certainly there is a quasi-military dictatorship in Russia, but law enforcement is not its purpose, and being the nexus of the kleptocracy, it is the fact of the cause of the crime in Russia not the bulwark against it. Wouldn't actually need Spetsnaz, if the Russians actually had any real police forces, which they don't.

Certainly, without any actual law enforcement, nor the rule of law itself, organized crime is able to run amok in Russia, but the vast majority of Russians are neither armed nor dangerous, and certainly not requiring FSB Alfa nor MVD Vityaz to police them, which are really just organs of a lawless pseudo totalitarian state security force and not police officers at all.

Now, in America, there are no such forces in play, JSOC and CIA NCS do not police the population, but that population is none the less heavily armed and not under totalitarian control as the Russians are, and thus the police have SWAT teams, although really, SWAT was pretty much just invented to keep the black man down, and the main reason why Americans are becoming less and less comfortable with, is because it has mission creeped into policing everybody now, the way it used to only police in the ghetto.

SWAT was after all; invented in the wake of the Watts riots, and in the face of that, the majority of Americans were very supportive of it, but it when it spread from Watts, to Cedar Rapids, that's when more Americans started to say "wtf?"

But again, it's a good thing, when it was Officer SWAT in Watts, switching to Officer Friendly in Glendale, nobody cared, but now that Officer SWAT has come to Glendale, they're paying attention to state force much more closely.When militarized policing was only for the blacks in South Central Los Angeles, or the Catholics in West Belfast, it was all good, it's only now that everybody else is getting a taste, that they have even begun to question it.

Personally, Officer SWAT doesn't particularly bother me, but only because I never had any delusions about Officer Friendly. I remember when it was just Officer Friendly, and he was never all that friendly, if you ever crossed him. Morever, just because you took Officer SWAT's manjammies and armored vehicles away, if he was still permitted to serve no knock warrants, what real difference would it make? Couldn't kick your door in, wearing police blues? Pretty sure he could.

Pulls up in unmarked car, wearing police blues, packing .357 magnum revolver and 12 gauge pump, then kicks in your door, no knock warrant? I don't think you'd notice much difference, in a practical sense. The opposition to SWAT, is like the opposition to Assault Weapons, "looks scary", but actual difference in a practical sense; not that much.

[ssu]

Good post, Smitty. Some remarks

certainly there is a quasi-military dictatorship in Russia, but law enforcement is not its purpose, and being the nexus of the kleptocracy, it is the fact of the cause of the crime in Russia not the bulwark against it. Wouldn't actually need Spetsnaz, if the Russians actually had any real police forces, which they don't.

And this is something that likely started from Ivan the Terrible's Oprichniki taxmen who wore full black and terrorized the people to pay taxes and strengthen the rule of the Czar. If in many places in the West the institute of a police started from a "Night watch" made up from "honorable citizens & townsfolk", in Russia it has been the way for the central government try to control a huge country. It's the weakness of the government that forces itself to use violence. A strong government with loyal subjects doesn't need threat of violence to control the majority of its citizens. Even today from Putin's rule it's obvious that the underlying reasoning for Putin's power grab is that only powerful men with a strong grip through a highly centralized government will prevent Russia from anarchy and collapse.

Oprichniki reenactment:

Certainly, without any actual law enforcement, nor the rule of law itself, organized crime is able to run amok in Russia, but the vast majority of Russians are neither armed nor dangerous, and certainly not requiring FSB Alfa nor MVD Vityaz to police them, which are really just organs of a lawless pseudo totalitarian state security force and not police officers at all.

Reminds the last time when I was in Russia. On the border checkpoint every official was old, overweight and had a different uniform or combination of camouflage suit and looked so demoralized and pathetic. At least when visiting the Soviet Union and going there By train, then it was a young acme-faced conscript giving a snappy salute after inspecting the train.

Now, in America, there are no such forces in play, JSOC and CIA NCS do not police the population, but that population is none the less heavily armed and not under totalitarian control as the Russians are, and thus the police have SWAT teams, although really, SWAT was pretty much just invented to keep the black man down, and the main reason why Americans are becoming less and less comfortable with, is because it has mission creeped into policing everybody now, the way it used to only police in the ghetto.

Yep. A fact that especially the BLM crowd wants to hear, but what is true is true.

SWAT was after all; invented in the wake of the Watts riots, and in the face of that, the majority of Americans were very supportive of it, but it when it spread from Watts, to Cedar Rapids, that's when more Americans started to say "wtf?"

Or at least the Dan Carlins of America start to ask it. And the liberals.

One reason also is that in American a lot in the Legal system are elected in their places and Americans have this urge to favour tough sentencing and aggressive measures in policework. So if some peacefull hinterland community that isn't dirt poor, it will likely form some ability in having a local SWAT team. Even if that community hasn't any actual need for this. But hey, ISIS can attack anywhere!

Hence the outcome is that the list of special law enforcement units in the US is long:

Federal Agencies

Department of Defense U.S. Army Special Reaction Teams (SRT)
United States Department of Army - Military District of Washington (MDW) Special Reaction Team (SRT)
USMC Special Reaction Teams (SRT)
USAF Emergency Services Team (EST)
USN Special Response Team (SRT)
NCIS Regional Emergency Reaction Counter Threat (REACT)
U.S. Department of Energy Special Response Teams (SRT)
Office of Secure Transportation Special Response Force (SRF)
U.S. Department of Homeland Security Customs and Border Protection (CBP) Office of Field Operations (OFO) Special Response Teams (SRT)
Quick Reaction Force (QRF) - CBP National Capital Region based tactical team
U.S. Border Patrol Special Operations Group Border Patrol Tactical Unit (BORTAC)
Border Patrol, Search, Trauma and Rescue (BORSTAR)
Mobile Response Team (MRT)
Federal Protective Service (FPS) - Special Response Teams
Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) Homeland Security Investigations (HSI) - Special Response Teams (SRT)
Homeland Security Investigations (HSI) - Rapid Response Teams (RRT)
Enforcement and Removal Operations (ERO) Special Response Teams (SRT)
Tactical Intervention and Control (TIAC) Teams
U.S. Coast Guard Maritime Safety and Security Team (MSST)
Maritime Security Response Team (MSRT)
Tactical Law Enforcement Teams (TACLET)
Helicopter Interdiction Tactical Squadron (HITRON)
Vessel Boarding Security Teams (VBST)
U.S. Secret Service Counter Sniper (CS) Unit
U.S. Secret Service Uniform Division (UD) - Emergency Response Team (ERT)
U.S. Secret Service - Counter Assault Team (CAT)
United States Department of Justice Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) - Special Response Teams (SRT)
Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) DEA Special Response Teams (SRT)
Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) Hostage Rescue Team (HRT)
Special Weapons and Tactics Teams (FBI SWAT)
Federal Bureau of Prisons - Special Operations Response Team (SORT)
U.S. Marshals Service (USMS) USMS Special Operations Group (SOG)
USMS - Special Response Teams (SRT)
U.S. Department of State Bureau of Diplomatic Security - Office of Mobile Security Deployments (MSD)
U.S. Department of the Treasury U.S. Mint Police - Special Response Teams (SRT)
National Park Service Special Response Teams (SRT) Grand Canyon Special Response Team
Yellowstone Special Response Team
Western Region Special Response Team
Special Event and Tactical Teams (SETT) Midwest Special Event and Tactical Team
Pacific West Region Special Event and Tactical Team
Southeast Region Special Event and Tactical Team
U.S. Park Police Special Weapons and Tactics Team
United States Park Police, New York Field Office Special Weapons and Tactics (SWAT) Team
Independent Federal AgenciesAmtrak Police - Mobile Tactical Unit (MTU)
Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) - Security Protective Service (SPS) - Special Response Team (SRT)
Federal Reserve Police - Special Response Team (SRT)
National Security Agency (NSA) - Special Response Team (SRT)
Pentagon Force Protection Agency Pentagon Police Directorate - Emergency Response Team (ERT)
U.S. Capitol Police - Containment Emergency Response Team (CERT)

State agencies

Division of Alaska State Troopers (AST) - Special Emergency Response Team (SERT)
Arizona Department of Public Safety Special Weapons and Tactics (SWAT) Team
California Highway Patrol - Special Weapons And Tactics (SWAT) Team
California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation Crisis Response Teams (CRT)
Special Service Unit (SSU)
Colorado Department of Corrections Special Operations and Response Team (SORT)
Connecticut Department of Correction Special Operations Group (SOG)
Connecticut State Police - State Police Tactical Unit (SPTU)
Delaware State Police - Special Operations Response Team (SORT)
Florida Highway Patrol - Tactical Response Teams (TRT)
Florida Department of Law Enforcement (FDLE) - Special Operations Teams (SOT)
Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission - Special Operations Group (FWCSOG)
Georgia Counter-Terrorism Task Force (CTTF) (State level multi-agency tactical team)
Georgia State Patrol - Special Weapons and Tactics (SWAT) Team
Hawaii Department of Public Safety Sheriff Division - Sheriff's Emergency Response Team (SERT)
Illinois State Police - Tactical Response Team (TRT)
Indiana State Police - Emergency Response Team (ERT)
Kentucky Department of Corrections - Corrections Emergency Response Team (CERT)
Louisiana State Police - Special Weapons and Tactics (SWAT) Team
Maine State Police - Tactical Team
Maine Department of Corrections Special Operations Group
Maryland Department of Natural Resources Police Special Operations Division, Tactical Response Team
Maryland State Police Special Tactical Assault Team Element (STATE)
Tactical Medical Unit (TMU)
Maryland Transportation Authority Police - Special Response Team (SRT)
Maryland Transit Administration Police - Visible Intermodal Prevention and Response (VIPR) Teams/Tactical Unit (formerly Special Response Team - SRT)
Maryland Maritime Tactical Operations Group (MTOG) - Joint federal, state, and local tactical unit specializing in maritime tactical operations
Massachusetts State Police - Special Tactical Operations Team (STOP)
Massachusetts Department of Correction Special Reaction Team (SRT)
Michigan State Police - Emergency Support Team (EST)
Minnesota Department of Corrections Special Operations Group (SOG)
Minnesota State Patrol Special Response Team (SRT)
Nebraska Department of Correctional Services Special Operations Response Team (SORT)
New Hampshire Division of State Police - Special Weapons and Tactics (SWAT) Unit
New Jersey State Police - Technical Emergency And Mission Specialists (TEAMS)
New Jersey Transit Police - Emergency Services Unit (ESU)
New Jersey Transit Police - Conditions Tactical Unit (CTU)
New Mexico State Police - Tactical Team
New York State Police - Special Operations Response Teams (SORT)
North Carolina State Bureau of Investigation (SBI) - Special Response Team (SRT)
North Carolina Department of Correction Special Operations Response Team (SORT)
Ohio State Highway Patrol - Special Response Team (SRT)
Ohio Department of Rehabilitation and Corrections Special Response Teams (SRT)
Special Tactics and Response (STAR)
Oklahoma Highway Patrol Tactical Team
Oklahoma Department of Corrections - Corrections Emergency Response Team (CERT)
Oregon State Police - Special Weapons and Tactics (SWAT) Team
Pennsylvania State Police - Special Emergency Response Team (SERT)
Pennsylvania Department of Corrections Corrections Rifle Specialist Team (CRST)
Hostage Rescue Team (HRT)
Port Authority Police Department (PAPD) – Emergency Services Unit (ESU)
Rhode Island Department of Corrections Correctional Emergency Response Team (CERT)
Rhode Island State Police - Tactical Team, WMD Tactical Team
South Carolina State Law Enforcement Division (SLED) - Special Weapons and Tactics (SWAT) Team
Tennessee Highway Patrol - Special Operations Unit (SOU)
Texas Department of Public Safety Ranger Division Ranger Recon Teams (RRT)
Special Weapons and Tactics (SWAT) Team
Texas Department of Public Safety - Special Response Teams (SRT)
Texas Parks and Wildlife Department SCOUT Team (Tactical Response)
Utah Highway Patrol - Special Emergency Response Team (SERT)
Vermont State Police - Tactical Services Unit
Virginia State Police - Special Weapons and Tactics Teams (SWAT)
Virginia Department of Corrections - Tactical Support Unit (TSU)

Local/County Agencies

The police departments of many counties and most major cities have special police units.

Denver Police Department - Special Weapons And Tactics (SWAT) Team
Columbus Indiana Police Department -Special Weapons and Tactics Team (SWAT)
Miami Police Department - Special Threat Response: Special Weapons and Tactics Team (SWAT) and Hostage Negotiators
Nassau County Police Department - Bureau of Special Operations (BSO), Emergency Service Unit (ESU)
New York City Police Department - Emergency Service Unit (ESU), Critical Response Command (CRC) and Strategic Response Group (SRG)
Los Angeles Police Department Metropolitan Division - Special Weapons and Tactics (SWAT) Team
Oakland Police Department - Special Weapons and Tactics (SWAT) Team
Portland Police Bureau - Special Emergency Response Team (SERT)
Tulsa County Sheriff's Office - Special Weapons And Tactics (SWAT) Team

And so on...likely the list goes on for many pages more.

Personally, Officer SWAT doesn't particularly bother me, but only because I never had any delusions about Officer Friendly. I remember when it was just Officer Friendly, and he was never all that friendly, if you ever crossed him. Morever, just because you took Officer SWAT's manjammies and armored vehicles away, if he was still permitted to serve no knock warrants, what real difference would it make? Couldn't kick your door in, wearing police blues? Pretty sure he could.

Pulls up in unmarked car, wearing police blues, packing .357 magnum revolver and 12 gauge pump, then kicks in your door, no knock warrant? I don't think you'd notice much difference, in a practical sense. The opposition to SWAT, is like the opposition to Assault Weapons, "looks scary", but actual difference in a practical sense; not that much.

This whole topic came to my mind when a few hours ago I visited the local garrison. Conscript jaegers were marching into traing with full gear and I noticed them wearing Balaclavas. Now at my age we used those only when it was cold, and even then a thin balaclava wasn't my favorite item from protecting from the cold. Darn did they look Russian to me. Guess it's the new fashion in military style.

But back to the subject, a well trained SWAT member is less dangerous than an ordinary policeman that is scared shitless for some reason and has a sidearm. But the mission creep is that if any kind of encounter is presumed that it could be potentially dangerous, hence approach it as a tactical situation like a SWAT team would do.

[Speaker to Animals]

SWAT, in America at least, are no less dangerous to an innocent civilian than the average cop. They kill innocent people all the time.

Personally, I think it's become more dangerous with SWAT because of their culture.

[TheReal_ND]

Hahahaha

[Okeefenokee]

Does that fella with the foul language have a job?

[Okeefenokee]

[ssu]

Well,

My President now met with Trump.



Went better than Trump with Merkel!

[Speaker to Animals]

Well,

My President now met with Trump. Trump talking about the pardon of the Sheriff Arpaio:

Lugenpresse.