Europe, Boring Until it's Not

[Montegriffo]

Well, it seems to me from a pragmatic standpoint, that if I were a "moderate" muslim living in the UK, I would have an interest in rooting out radical islamists. Doing so would presumably make my life easier.

Maybe not if you were constantly vilified in the right wing press and subjected to daily harassment from EDF thugs and their like. Maybe you would just keep your head down and not risk being attacked by both sides. This is why moderate Muslims need to be supported and not just lumped in with the "religion of hate".

[C-Mag]

No I don't think you are scared. I don't think you have any reason to be scared. I think you are as likely to be involved in a mass shooting by some mentally ill white guy with an arsenal of weapons as you are an Islamic attack. Seeing as you think that is rare enough to not be worth fearing then I expect you wouldn't fear death at the hand of ISIS either.
What you should fear is a divided society which promotes acts of violence from all extremes be they ISIS, white supremacists or the forces of law and order.
It wasn't division and hatred which brought peace to Northern Ireland it was a weariness of violence and a willingness to live side by side in peace.

The danger I see with Islam, is that it is not merely a religion. We have to accept the fact that within the population of Islam, the Religious Law is practiced as the Law of the Land rather than traditional Western Democratic values with our Civil Rights. To allow any subset to undermine the Law of the Land and practice a separate Law is a path to destruction. As far as dangers to the lives of humans, maybe only Communism comes close to the amount of death and destruction doled out in the name of Islam. It is not fearing them, it is taking them seriously.

Civil Rights are the basis of Western Civilization, they are not the basis of Islamic civilization. That is the crux of the problem.

And you somehow believe that Western civilisation and it's laws and law enforcement aren't strong enough to stand up to this latest attack on it's values? Western civilisation has been under attack for centuries whether it was from the original Muslim hordes, Fascism, Communism or many other forces out to destroy it. Why do you suddenly feel it is going to be defeated by a few deranged zealots driving vehicles into crowds?
You think no one is taking the threat seriously? Why would you think that the day after another attack?
It's just a matter of getting things into proportion and not falling into the trap of preaching hate and division and making things far worse.

I just recognize the dangers. When we allow Sharia Courts to practice Religious Law, it subverts Civil Rights.

I never said Western Civilization will suddenly be defeated by Muslim hordes, first of all Islamic Geo-Politcal-Military Strategy doesn't work that way. We have a great historical record to assist us on this. Will Durant described it well with the Muslim Conquest of India. Now Dan Carlin looked at the Muslim Conquest of Spain and called it merely a series of raids. It is a slow creep. Best to nip it in the butt. I'm sure Winston Churchill could never have imagined Sharia Courts in England.

[TheReal_ND]

PROGRESS

[Montegriffo]

I just recognize the dangers. When we allow Sharia Courts to practice Religious Law, it subverts Civil Rights.

This obsession with Sharia law is just going to derail the conversation every time I try to talk about the dangers of hate and division. There is no widespread adoption of it in the UK and polls suggest that 80% of British Muslims are opposed to it. Cutting off hands and throwing gays off rooftops will never be accepted in UK law and there is no evidence these things are happening.

Side note, I have signed up to the other home Kath has mentioned and there is a much more varied discussion going on over there on this topic. I don't know if it is because it is a much larger site than here or if there is just too much of a right wing bias on the MHF but this thread may well be my last hurrah over here like Kath's attempts to inject a little balance into the Trump debate surely is her's.
I'm not suggesting that the forum will miss my contributions as much as it will miss Kath's but I predict a trend if things continue as they are.

[Otern]

I just recognize the dangers. When we allow Sharia Courts to practice Religious Law, it subverts Civil Rights.

This obsession with Sharia law is just going to derail the conversation every time I try to talk about the dangers of hate and division. There is no widespread adoption of it in the UK and polls suggest that 80% of British Muslims are opposed to it. Cutting off hands and throwing gays off rooftops will never be accepted in UK law and there is no evidence these things are happening.

Side note, I have signed up to the other home Kath has mentioned and there is a much more varied discussion going on over there on this topic. I don't know if it is because it is a much larger site than here or if there is just too much of a right wing bias on the MHF but this thread may well be my last hurrah over here like Kath's attempts to inject a little balance into the Trump debate surely is her's.
I'm not suggesting that the forum will miss my contributions as much as it will miss Kath's but I predict a trend if things continue as they are.

Totally understand that. You get way too much flak for shit you actually didn't say around here. If you and Grumpycatface leaves, this will be nothing but an echo chamber, and lead to other people leaving too.

[Montegriffo]

I just recognize the dangers. When we allow Sharia Courts to practice Religious Law, it subverts Civil Rights.

This obsession with Sharia law is just going to derail the conversation every time I try to talk about the dangers of hate and division. There is no widespread adoption of it in the UK and polls suggest that 80% of British Muslims are opposed to it. Cutting off hands and throwing gays off rooftops will never be accepted in UK law and there is no evidence these things are happening.

Side note, I have signed up to the other home Kath has mentioned and there is a much more varied discussion going on over there on this topic. I don't know if it is because it is a much larger site than here or if there is just too much of a right wing bias on the MHF but this thread may well be my last hurrah over here like Kath's attempts to inject a little balance into the Trump debate surely is her's.
I'm not suggesting that the forum will miss my contributions as much as it will miss Kath's but I predict a trend if things continue as they are.

Totally understand that. You get way too much flak for shit you actually didn't say around here. If you and Grumpycatface leaves, this will be nothing but an echo chamber, and lead to other people leaving too.

Thanks Otern, although you and I frequently disagree I have always enjoyed and learned something from our discussions, I wish there were more like you on here.
Despite what many believe Grumps is his own man and I'll neither encourage nor dissuade him from leaving and coming over to a new home with me.

[TheReal_ND]

[C-Mag]

I just recognize the dangers. When we allow Sharia Courts to practice Religious Law, it subverts Civil Rights.

This obsession with Sharia law is just going to derail the conversation every time I try to talk about the dangers of hate and division. There is no widespread adoption of it in the UK and polls suggest that 80% of British Muslims are opposed to it. Cutting off hands and throwing gays off rooftops will never be accepted in UK law and there is no evidence these things are happening.

Side note, I have signed up to the other home Kath has mentioned and there is a much more varied discussion going on over there on this topic. I don't know if it is because it is a much larger site than here or if there is just too much of a right wing bias on the MHF but this thread may well be my last hurrah over here like Kath's attempts to inject a little balance into the Trump debate surely is her's.
I'm not suggesting that the forum will miss my contributions as much as it will miss Kath's but I predict a trend if things continue as they are.

What is the site, am I invited ?

[C-Mag]

I just recognize the dangers. When we allow Sharia Courts to practice Religious Law, it subverts Civil Rights.

This obsession with Sharia law is just going to derail the conversation every time I try to talk about the dangers of hate and division. There is no widespread adoption of it in the UK and polls suggest that 80% of British Muslims are opposed to it. Cutting off hands and throwing gays off rooftops will never be accepted in UK law and there is no evidence these things are happening.

So, we can't discuss Sharia Law Courts operating outside the Law of the Land ?
Yet you have what maybe a hundred or hundreds of Sharia Courts?
It was in 2008 that the UK recognized Sharia Law, right?

Let me ask you this, if you graphed the rise of Sharia Courts in the UK since the approval would the graph show a slow growth, bell curve or hockey stick ?

Hey, it's your land, enjoy it. Looks like your government is now concerned about the treatment of women in Sharia Courts.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 49826.html

[Martin Hash]

Nobody can say that gaslighting doesn't work.

p.s. Monte you're welcome to come back & gaslight us whenever you want.