Europe, Boring Until it's Not

[C-Mag]

What is a moderate Muslim? Are we talking about somebody who doesn't really believe in Islam?

That is probably how I would put it, but I am an unrepentant sinner and an atheist. The extent that some is or isn't religious ain't really my wheelhouse.

The efforts a lot of these people put towards communicating with other Muslims, and trying to encourage meaningful Islamic reformation is real though.

My main concern is how so many of the major terrorists in recent years started out as "lapsed Muslims", or whatever you want to call it, and then radicalized.

There's not going to be an Islamic reformation, by the way, and even if there was, it would only make it worse. Even in Christianity, the Reformation created genocides in Europe.

Is it legal to preach politics in a place of worship in England or the rest of Western Europe ?
It's illegal in the US.

Historical Note, the American Revolution was supported on Sundays in churches all over the colonies and served as a bit of a launching pad for our revolution.

[Montegriffo]

Who isn't supporting your intelligence services?

Who in the UK are alienating "moderate" muslims?

Those people who try to drive a wedge between Muslims and the rest of society. Those on the far right and the far left who promote hate and do the work of radical Islam. What these people don't seem to realise is that they share the goals of groups like ISIS who also want a divided society and an us and them mentality which makes it easier for scumbags like the British born Muslim from yesterdays attack to justify their actions.
Having a divided society makes it less likely that the Muslim community will provide information to the security forces.

[Speaker to Animals]

Calling Turks the “future of Europe,” Turkey’s president on Friday implored his compatriots living on the Continent to have multiple children as an act of revenge against the West’s “injustices.”

“Go live in better neighborhoods. Drive the best cars. Live in the best houses,” President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said Friday in the city of Eskisehir, while campaigning for a referendum that would solidify his power. “Make not three, but five children. Because you are the future of Europe. That will be the best response to the injustices against you.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/17/worl ... urope.html

They are not even hiding it any more, Monty. Weaponized immigration is a thing. It's been a thing since the Hebrews.

It's the exact same thing our ancestors did in America and Australia. You better wake the fuck up.

[Montegriffo]

Is it legal to preach politics in a place of worship in England or the rest of Western Europe ?
It's illegal in the US.

It's certainly not legal to preach violence in a place of worship or any other place for that matter. As for preaching politics the line between politics and religion is a bit too blurred to make a distinction in my mind. Religion after all is just another way to control the masses, teach right from wrong and tell people how to live their lives. How do you tell them apart?

[C-Mag]

Is it legal to preach politics in a place of worship in England or the rest of Western Europe ?
It's illegal in the US.

It's certainly not legal to preach violence in a place of worship or any other place for that matter. As for preaching politics the line between politics and religion is a bit too blurred to make a distinction in my mind. Religion after all is just another way to control the masses, teach right from wrong and tell people how to live their lives. How do you tell them apart?

Is it legal there to preach in a church that you can ignore the laws of the nation and you should follow the laws of Mithra ?

[Montegriffo]

So, you think I'm scared.

No I don't think you are scared. I don't think you have any reason to be scared. I think you are as likely to be involved in a mass shooting by some mentally ill white guy with an arsenal of weapons as you are an Islamic attack. Seeing as you think that is rare enough to not be worth fearing then I expect you wouldn't fear death at the hand of ISIS either.
What you should fear is a divided society which promotes acts of violence from all extremes be they ISIS, white supremacists or the forces of law and order.
It wasn't division and hatred which brought peace to Northern Ireland it was a weariness of violence and a willingness to live side by side in peace.

[Montegriffo]

Is it legal there to preach that you can ignore the laws of the nation ?

I think you can probably work that out for yourself......

[C-Mag]

So, you think I'm scared.

No I don't think you are scared. I don't think you have any reason to be scared. I think you are as likely to be involved in a mass shooting by some mentally ill white guy with an arsenal of weapons as you are an Islamic attack. Seeing as you think that is rare enough to not be worth fearing then I expect you wouldn't fear death at the hand of ISIS either.
What you should fear is a divided society which promotes acts of violence from all extremes be they ISIS, white supremacists or the forces of law and order.
It wasn't division and hatred which brought peace to Northern Ireland it was a weariness of violence and a willingness to live side by side in peace.

The danger I see with Islam, is that it is not merely a religion. We have to accept the fact that within the population of Islam, the Religious Law is practiced as the Law of the Land rather than traditional Western Democratic values with our Civil Rights. To allow any subset to undermine the Law of the Land and practice a separate Law is a path to destruction. As far as dangers to the lives of humans, maybe only Communism comes close to the amount of death and destruction doled out in the name of Islam. It is not fearing them, it is taking them seriously.

Civil Rights are the basis of Western Civilization, they are not the basis of Islamic civilization. That is the crux of the problem.

[de officiis]

Who isn't supporting your intelligence services?

Who in the UK are alienating "moderate" muslims?

Those people who try to drive a wedge between Muslims and the rest of society. Those on the far right and the far left who promote hate and do the work of radical Islam. What these people don't seem to realise is that they share the goals of groups like ISIS who also want a divided society and an us and them mentality which makes it easier for scumbags like the British born Muslim from yesterdays attack to justify their actions.
Having a divided society makes it less likely that the Muslim community will provide information to the security forces.

Well, it seems to me from a pragmatic standpoint, that if I were a "moderate" muslim living in the UK, I would have an interest in rooting out radical islamists. Doing so would presumably make my life easier.

[Montegriffo]

So, you think I'm scared.

No I don't think you are scared. I don't think you have any reason to be scared. I think you are as likely to be involved in a mass shooting by some mentally ill white guy with an arsenal of weapons as you are an Islamic attack. Seeing as you think that is rare enough to not be worth fearing then I expect you wouldn't fear death at the hand of ISIS either.
What you should fear is a divided society which promotes acts of violence from all extremes be they ISIS, white supremacists or the forces of law and order.
It wasn't division and hatred which brought peace to Northern Ireland it was a weariness of violence and a willingness to live side by side in peace.

The danger I see with Islam, is that it is not merely a religion. We have to accept the fact that within the population of Islam, the Religious Law is practiced as the Law of the Land rather than traditional Western Democratic values with our Civil Rights. To allow any subset to undermine the Law of the Land and practice a separate Law is a path to destruction. As far as dangers to the lives of humans, maybe only Communism comes close to the amount of death and destruction doled out in the name of Islam. It is not fearing them, it is taking them seriously.

Civil Rights are the basis of Western Civilization, they are not the basis of Islamic civilization. That is the crux of the problem.

And you somehow believe that Western civilisation and it's laws and law enforcement aren't strong enough to stand up to this latest attack on it's values? Western civilisation has been under attack for centuries whether it was from the original Muslim hordes, Fascism, Communism or many other forces out to destroy it. Why do you suddenly feel it is going to be defeated by a few deranged zealots driving vehicles into crowds?
You think no one is taking the threat seriously? Why would you think that the day after another attack?
It's just a matter of getting things into proportion and not falling into the trap of preaching hate and division and making things far worse.