Brexit

[heydaralon]

52% v 48% is no proper mandate for such an important decision.
Especially when it was such a vague question (stay or leave) with no actual legal authority.

Should have thought about that BEFORE putting it up for a vote, not after.

Throwing the vote out the window at this point is just going to disenfranchise all the brexit voters.

Considering the fact that Cameron only agreed to the vote because he was scared of losing seats to UKIP there should have been no vote in the first place.
Funny how 48% of the voters can be disenfranchised and nobody GAF.
Don't know why a second vote is so scary to Brexiteers, what with their massive majority.
It's as if now the public is better informed they think people might have changed their minds or something.
Don't know why we keep having general elections, New Labour won a huge majority in 1997 and that vote should be respected.
All the elections since then have just disrespected the voters.

How many votes/issues/crises in Democracy are because politicians are afraid of losing? I'd say a lot of them, maybe close to all. What of it?

Guys, we can vote however we want, as long as it is pro-Eu.

[Speaker to Animals]

If the vote doesn't go our way, we just keep revoting until we get our way. Otherwise, it's like your disenfranchising us, guys. Come on.

[Speaker to Animals]

I wonder if it would be possible to choose two or three cities in the UK (maybe one in each nation) that are partial "remainers" in that they abide by the EU. If Britons want to remain in the EU, then they can move to those regions. Otherwise, the rest of the UK is only the UK.

[Montegriffo]

Should have thought about that BEFORE putting it up for a vote, not after.

Throwing the vote out the window at this point is just going to disenfranchise all the brexit voters.

Considering the fact that Cameron only agreed to the vote because he was scared of losing seats to UKIP there should have been no vote in the first place.
Funny how 48% of the voters can be disenfranchised and nobody GAF.
Don't know why a second vote is so scary to Brexiteers, what with their massive majority.
It's as if now the public is better informed they think people might have changed their minds or something.
Don't know why we keep having general elections, New Labour won a huge majority in 1997 and that vote should be respected.
All the elections since then have just disrespected the voters.

How many votes/issues/crises in Democracy are because politicians are afraid of losing? I'd say a lot of them, maybe close to all. What of it?

Guys, we can vote however we want, as long as it is pro-Eu.

You don't have to be pro-EU to realise leaving is worse than staying in.
I have plenty of issues with the federalisation of Europe but I'm not going to cut my nose off to spite my face.
Britain in the EU can at least have a say in policy matters and even veto any new powers Brussels wishes to impose.
Outside of the EU we have no say at all.
Without Britain, the EU can carry on moving towards a United States of Europe with little hindrance.
The uninformed seem to think the EU will collapse without the UK, the opposite is true. Their batshit crazy ideas will now just roll on without any strong opposition.
We don't get to leave Europe whether we stay in the EU or leave. We just have less control over our future trade with them.
We will still do most of our trade with Europe. We are not going to start buying bleached chickens or growth hormone beef. We will still import most of our food from EU countries but we will pay a lot more for it thanks to WTO tariffs.

[Speaker to Animals]

A majority of your countrymen disagreed with you. Do you understand what democracy actually means??

[heydaralon]

Considering the fact that Cameron only agreed to the vote because he was scared of losing seats to UKIP there should have been no vote in the first place.
Funny how 48% of the voters can be disenfranchised and nobody GAF.
Don't know why a second vote is so scary to Brexiteers, what with their massive majority.
It's as if now the public is better informed they think people might have changed their minds or something.
Don't know why we keep having general elections, New Labour won a huge majority in 1997 and that vote should be respected.
All the elections since then have just disrespected the voters.

How many votes/issues/crises in Democracy are because politicians are afraid of losing? I'd say a lot of them, maybe close to all. What of it?

Guys, we can vote however we want, as long as it is pro-Eu.

You don't have to be pro-EU to realise leaving is worse than staying in.
I have plenty of issues with the federalisation of Europe but I'm not going to cut my nose off to spite my face.
Britain in the EU can at least have a say in policy matters and even veto any new powers Brussels wishes to impose.
Outside of the EU we have no say at all.
Without Britain, the EU can carry on moving towards a United States of Europe with little hindrance.
The uninformed seem to think the EU will collapse without the UK, the opposite is true. Their batshit crazy ideas will now just roll on without any strong opposition.
We don't get to leave Europe whether we stay in the EU or leave. We just have less control over our future trade with them.
We will still do most of our trade with Europe. We are not going to start buying bleached chickens or growth hormone beef. We will still import most of our food from EU countries but we will pay a lot more for it thanks to WTO tariffs.

So do you think people should vote on important issues, or should they not?

[Otern]

You don't have to be pro-EU to realise leaving is worse than staying in.

It doesn't matter if it's worse or better at this point. You're past that point when the votes were counted.

What the whole thing is about now, is if you're going to follow through on a democratic decision, or abandon it all, just because some people think it was a bad idea.

It's not an "in or out of EU"-question anymore, but a "democracy or not"-question.

[Montegriffo]

I wonder if it would be possible to choose two or three cities in the UK (maybe one in each nation) that are partial "remainers" in that they abide by the EU. If Britons want to remain in the EU, then they can move to those regions. Otherwise, the rest of the UK is only the UK.

That would be London for a start. London voted overwhelmingly to remain.
In fact, virtually the whole of the South of England, Northern Ireland and all of Scotland voted to remain.
The North of England, most of the centre and the Welsh voted leave, often as a protest vote against the Tory government rather than on the issues of our membership.
I've listened to hundreds of phone in shows about Brexit and have lost count of the times callers have said ''I voted leave as a protest because I didn't think it would win. If I had my vote back I wouldn't do it again''.
This is why Brexiteers are so against a second vote. They know they would lose. They are the anti-democratic crowd, not those who want the public to have its say now there is an actual plan for leaving rather than a vague notion of whether we should be in or out.

[Speaker to Animals]

Speaking to Otern's salient point above..

Consider what happens if you manage to get a "re-vote" and the Remainers win the "re-vote" with a similar small majority lead. Brexiters could simply use your own arguments against you in a demand for a third re-vote. You are opening a Pandora's box here that you cannot easily close.

Once your fucked up Parliament moves to re-vote this thing, your democracy is essentially defunct.

[Montegriffo]

How many votes/issues/crises in Democracy are because politicians are afraid of losing? I'd say a lot of them, maybe close to all. What of it?

Guys, we can vote however we want, as long as it is pro-Eu.

You don't have to be pro-EU to realise leaving is worse than staying in.
I have plenty of issues with the federalisation of Europe but I'm not going to cut my nose off to spite my face.
Britain in the EU can at least have a say in policy matters and even veto any new powers Brussels wishes to impose.
Outside of the EU we have no say at all.
Without Britain, the EU can carry on moving towards a United States of Europe with little hindrance.
The uninformed seem to think the EU will collapse without the UK, the opposite is true. Their batshit crazy ideas will now just roll on without any strong opposition.
We don't get to leave Europe whether we stay in the EU or leave. We just have less control over our future trade with them.
We will still do most of our trade with Europe. We are not going to start buying bleached chickens or growth hormone beef. We will still import most of our food from EU countries but we will pay a lot more for it thanks to WTO tariffs.

So do you think people should vote on important issues, or should they not?

When they vote on the actual issues, sure.
When they vote to simply protest against the government or when they are lied to by unscrupulous self-serving politicians, probably not.