How's that Obamacare Repeal Working Out For You?

[Smitty-48]

People certainly do suffer and die due to a lack of public healthcare in Canada, we simply limit your access on the supply side, either with long waiting lists for treatment, or by what are in effect death panels, if you have a serious ailment, they convene a board of doctors and administrators to decide if you're a good candidate for the treatment, based primarily on the cost, and if they decide you're not a good candidate, you don't get the treatment, and there's nowhere you can go to buy it if you don't agree, unless you want to go the US or Switzerland and pay cash for it.

My old man got the death panel; oncology board, there was a surgery which could have extended his life, but they basically said; "not by enough to make it worth the expenditure, sorry, but you're just out of luck, here's some chemo for you, sayonara."

[jbird4049]

Since wealth is inanimate, there is no letting or not letting wealth accumulate. You say it that way to hide what you're really saying. You want to stop people from being able to accumulate wealth. The end of that road is totalitarianism. We've seen it enough times. Not interested.

What anyone wants does not matter. It is a binary solution set. Peaceful reforms, or unpeaceful reforms. Peace, or war.

Regardless of the political, or economic systems used, a group of people always succeed at gaming the system and accumulate great wealth. Since the end result of unfettered wealth accumulation is the vacuuming up of all wealth from everyone else into the coffers of a very few, very wealthy, and now very powerful small elite which invariable impose a form of totalitarianism on all everyone else, what is the difference? There is no choice really. If wealth accumulation is not halted, and preferable reversed, our country will fall sooner than later. At the very least, we will become a police state in order to protect the very wealthy, powerful small elite class.

I can tell you that the fall of Empires usually happens at the same time, or at least civil unrest, or actual civil wars. Every. Damn. Time. The unbalance becomes too great. It is like a law of nature. Akkad, Assyria, Both the Roman Republic and Roman Empire, various Chinese Dynasties, France, the various revolutions of 1848, and yes, the United States in the 1880s-1910s, and the 1930s.

Only when an emperor, king, prime minister, president, or a group of reformers succeed in halting, and then reducing the trend are collapses, or unrest, stopped. Or at least the cause of a downfall becomes external, and not internal.

So we have two choices. Do you want successful peaceful reforms, which has happened, albeit rarely, or unrest possibly leading to outright civil war, which has happen a lot?

whatever. I can pick one arbitrary thing that exists in every society at different levels throughout all of history and say that that was the cause of all their declines, too.

I'm gonna pick eating utensils. As societies increase in wealth, the use of eating utensils increases. At a certain point, they reach critical mass and collapse. Just look at the mongols. Riding around on the steppe with a bow in one hand and goat leg in the other. Fast forward a couple generations and they're all living high on the hog, probably eating humus or something other lily white shit, and they were using spoons. Next thing you, no more mongols.

Luckily, the west veered back on course by eating mostly paper wrapped food from the drive through window. I think that's the only thing that saved us from this vicious cycle of eating utensil inflicted social collapse.

The "i have nothing to say, so I'm gonna be goofy" defense?

[jbird4049]

People certainly do suffer and die due to a lack of public healthcare in Canada, we simply limit your access on the supply side, either with long waiting lists for treatment, or by what are in effect death panels, if you have a serious ailment, they convene a board of doctors and administrators to decide if you're a good candidate for the treatment, based primarily on the cost, and if they decide you're not a good candidate, you don't get the treatment, and there's nowhere you can go to buy it if you don't agree, unless you want to go the US or Switzerland and pay cash for it.

My old man got the death panel; oncology board, there was a surgery which could have extended his life, but they basically said; "not by enough to make it worth the expenditure, sorry, but you're just out of luck, here's some chemo for you, sayonara."

Which is not good. I still would prefer you system with its flaws. If you don't have health insurance, or money, in the United States, you wont even get bad access. You'll get no access, or if you are very lucky, a chance to declare bankruptcy.

[Smitty-48]

People certainly do suffer and die due to a lack of public healthcare in Canada, we simply limit your access on the supply side, either with long waiting lists for treatment, or by what are in effect death panels, if you have a serious ailment, they convene a board of doctors and administrators to decide if you're a good candidate for the treatment, based primarily on the cost, and if they decide you're not a good candidate, you don't get the treatment, and there's nowhere you can go to buy it if you don't agree, unless you want to go the US or Switzerland and pay cash for it.

My old man got the death panel; oncology board, there was a surgery which could have extended his life, but they basically said; "not by enough to make it worth the expenditure, sorry, but you're just out of luck, here's some chemo for you, sayonara."

Which is not good. I still would prefer you system with its flaws. If you don't have health insurance, or money, in the United States, you wont even get bad access. You'll get no access, or if you are very lucky, a chance to declare bankruptcy.

Meh, my old man was a trooper, he just shrugged it off "Everybody gotta die sometime, Red" He could have gone bankrupt paying for private care in the US, but then he wouldn't have had much left over to leave to his sons, so he took one for the team, God bless him. <toasts>

[jbird4049]

Around and around we go on this.

Come on. Every Western European country, Japan, Canada, and Taiwan all have medical cover for their people that covers (almost) everything, that cost less, and covers everyone. People do not go bankrupt paying for their care, and do not die, or suffer for it's lack as they still do here despite Obamacare.

So there have been at least five serious attempts to pass legislation to cover the entire population. Once each in the '30s, '40s, '60s, '90s, and 2010s. Every time they are defeated, or as in Obamacare's case, deformed into some Frankenstein. All under the war cries of Socialism!

Somehow our exceptional country can not do what all these nations have been doing. Some for over a century. Sure, the various system all have some problems, but they work. And no one, beside some fucked up ideologies, and corruption, can explain why we do not.

Let's not forget about the screams of "death panels" that came up when health reform came up in 2010.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/4475784/?#sp=show-clips

And lets not forget the response. They said there were no death panels but promptly removed the provision in question. My 2 year old doesnt get away with that you bitches won't either.

The provision to pay doctors for their visits/advice about dealing with dying that magically morphed into the death panels, and soylent green provision?

They removed it for political reasons, not because there was anything to it.

It was par with the "Obama Kenyan Muslin Socialist" accusations.

[Martin Hash]

It's very difficult to concentrate the wealth in The 1% if money gets spent willie-nillie extending people's lives.

[Okeefenokee]

The "i have nothing to say, so I'm gonna be goofy" defense?

Did income inequality bring down the Anasazi too?

[Okeefenokee]

It's very difficult to concentrate the wealth in The 1% if money gets spent willie-nillie extending people's lives.

Lol. What are you gonna do, pay a roofer to run down to the drug store everyday?

If that were true, our already sky high healthcare spending would be closing the wealth gap.

[Martin Hash]

The same ol' canard argument. The Concentrationists can't just stop healthcare & taxes, they've got to prevent democracy too or the majority is going to overreact & turn this place into Venezuela.

[Okeefenokee]

The same ol' canard argument. The Concentrationists can't just stop healthcare & taxes, they've got to prevent democracy too or the majority is going to overreact & turn this place into Venezuela.

You said if we do the thing we're already doing that it will do something different than what's already happening.