Fire McMaster !

[Kazmyr]

What makes him say that?

Achievement Unlocked - Batshit Fucking Crazy

[Smitty-48]

Curtiss LeMay was from another era.

What era was that?

WW1 & WW2 era.

The era of total war, mobilization of the economy for war, conscription etc.

A nuclear exchange in this era, would make World War I and II combined look like a bee sting, so I'm not getting how we're not in the Curtis LeMay paradigm anymore, I mean, other than willful self delusion that is.

I would submit, all Curtis LeMay did was look at the situation and say "15 minutes notice to launch on warning, that's going to trip off eventually, so let's just do it now, before somebody screws the pooch and a one way shooting match goes two way, while we still have the upper hand of practical impunity".

Why that wouldn't apply to North Korea now, is beyond me, why would the Americans allow North Korea to reach the threshold of launch on warning, when they could put a stop to that? Seems to me, this is a classic Curtis LeMay moment, right here, right now.

[ssu]

Seems to me, this is a classic Curtis LeMay moment, right here, right now.

The Cuban Crisis was the classic Curtis LeMay moment.

The moment when the US had absolutely no idea that there were also a lot of tactical nukes already deployed in Cuba, which likely would have been used to stop the Marine landings.



That could be the thing right here, right now. If the US intel isn't totally up to date at the operational status of North Koreas weapon systems. And let's just remember that there was no nuclear war with Soviet Union. It wasn't inevitable as we know now.

[Smitty-48]

And let's just remember that there was no nuclear war with Soviet Union. It wasn't inevitable as we know now.

I would say that the mistake there would be the assumption that every scenario for all time is going to turn out like the Cold War, Curtis LeMay didn't have the benefit of hindsight, but actually, neither do we, since there's no law of physics which states that all nuclear standoffs must end with Mikhail Gorbachev and Glasnost every single time, in fact, I would bet that physics would more likely find that to be a statistical aberration.

You're never going to have to fight a nuclear war because you've never had to fight one before? Seems like circular logic to me.

[Smitty-48]

Also, I wouldn't say the North Koreans are irrational actors per se, but compared to the Soviets, North Korea is totally fuckin' nuts, so I could see them screwing the pooch far more often than the Soviets would have, given unlimited chances to do so.

Ten, twenty, thirty years, on hair trigger alert with the North Koreans? I don't think that's quite the same paradigm as the Cold War, I'd give the Soviets far more credit than that, they weren't the same brand of cray-cray, not even close.

[ssu]

I would say that the mistake there would be the assumption that every scenario for all time is going to turn out like the Cold War, Curtis LeMay didn't have the benefit of hindsight, but actually, neither do we, since there's no law of physics which states that all nuclear standoffs must end with Mikhail Gorbachev and Glasnost every single time, in fact, I would bet that physics would more likely find that to be a statistical aberration.

Of course that would be a mistake. But still with WMD's, there hasn't been an accidental war. And even if countries have come into blows (like Pakistan and India), cooler heads have prevailed and things haven't escalated. Has worked so far. That's what we can only say.

[Smitty-48]

I would say that the mistake there would be the assumption that every scenario for all time is going to turn out like the Cold War, Curtis LeMay didn't have the benefit of hindsight, but actually, neither do we, since there's no law of physics which states that all nuclear standoffs must end with Mikhail Gorbachev and Glasnost every single time, in fact, I would bet that physics would more likely find that to be a statistical aberration.

Of course that would be a mistake. But still with WMD's, there hasn't been an accidental war. And even if countries have come into blows (like Pakistan and India), cooler heads have prevailed and things haven't escalated. Has worked so far. That's what we can only say.

Still a Curtis LeMay moment, when you are at the junction between accepting hair trigger alert launch on warning with the North Koreans for all time, or not. Of course I think the Americans will fold and chicken out, but that doesn't actually mean that they should, because that doesn't necessarily make them safer, to wit, Curtis LeMay only has to be right, once, so far he's 0-1, but I wouldn't assume that he's going oh-fer, for all time, in fact, wouldn't suprise me if he got it exactly right, on the second try.

[Smitty-48]

See, Trump went and doubled down today, in terms of ramping up the rhetoric in "this shall not stand" terms, and I'm 100% OK with that, but again, my concern is that he's going to talk a big game, but ultimately just let the North Koreans off the hook, I'm not actually with Mattis, in terms of "give the NK's some space" fuck that, just gives the NK's an out, I'm with Trump, don't give them a fuckin' out, let's have resolution of this right fuckin' now, with the North Korean's backing down and eating crow, or yeah, quite frankly, Curtis LeMay mutherfuckin' counterforce option, but don't just say it, do it, and if you're not prepared to go to counterforce immediately, that's fine, but then that is where strategic warning comes into play, right up in their commie kitchen, Eagles with thunderbolts in talons grasped, nobody is saying telegraph it, but just make sure you back that big talk up and make it happen, if/when they don't back the fuck down forthwith.

Bear in mind, if you're invoking the Cold War, the North Koreans are already way outside the bounds of what the United States would have tolerated in terms of stated intentions, the Soviets never would have threatened the United States the way the North Koreans are, and the Soviets never did, even when they put missiles in Cuba, the Soviets swore up and down that those missiles were for purely defensive purposes, and that was true, if the Soviets had gone so far as to declare that those missiles were there with first strike option on the table, and maybe we'll launch a few at Bermuda just to make our point? That would have been Curtis mutherfuckin LeMay time, right fuckin then and there; at minimum 800 x B-52 at failsafe, Eagles with thunderbolts in talons grasped, cocked locked and ready to rock; be real careful with your next move , Ivan, because, make no mistake, you are standing on the brink now, pal.

[TheReal_ND]

/pol/ poll

http://www.strawpoll.me/13677533

GOD SPEED NUCLEAR CHEETO MONKEY HITLER

[Smitty-48]

If this is not a situation where America would invoke casus belli and bring the full measure of her military to bear in order to effect a resolution wherein the North Koreans would be prevented from reaching the threshold of being capable of launching ICBM's at the CONUS, then what is the United States military even for?

Anybody can do jack shit about North Korea pointing ICBM's at them, you don't have to spend a trillion dollars a year to do that, there should be no charge to the taxpayer for doing jack shit about things, that should rather be free, or at the very least, not a trillion dollars a year, conversely, if you're being taxed to maintain a Pentagon, you shouldn't have to be putting up with North Korean ICBM's.

I mean, it's North Korea, if the Pentagon can't swiftly and decisively put the likes of North Korea in their place, particularly at the prices you're paying for it, then the Pentagon is fuckin' useless to you, by definition.