Let's Go Mammoth Hunting

[SuburbanFarmer]

Not a park bear, but might as well be. Private land, bears being fed. So, not a lot of fair chase there. These animals more or less are farmed commodities.
The guy is probably a dick, but he did take a bear from the ground.

The animal doesn't suffer much more or less than if he'd been gut shot, the spear was a gut shot. Animal probably died from septic shock as much as blood loss. Most humans see stuff like this and are taken back, some find it sickening. But really, it's no different than African tribesman taking an elephant, Makha Tribesmen in Washington state taking a whale. Or what everyone forgets is nature is a cruel bitch. These animals don't act like Bambi and the Lion King. They kill each other, they leave animals maimed to die. Man is just an animal, but he is a super predator.

The difference is that those tribesmen came in a group and killed the things within minutes - not overnight.

I don't much have a problem with the overnight thing. He had enough balls to stick a bear on the ground with some threat to himself, but not enough balls to track down the wounded bear with just his spear, right.

The guy is clearly a sport hunter, I've never been a big fan of those guys. Probably gave away the meat and is not interested in harvesting the animal for food. That's the big difference fo rme.
Steve Rinella is one of the good guys along these lines. He's very good about using the meat he takes.

Definitely agree with that. I can't stand "trophy" guys. I used to see big ol snapper and jacks left to rot after the pictures in Florida. Makes me sick.

[C-Mag]

The difference is that those tribesmen came in a group and killed the things within minutes - not overnight.

I don't much have a problem with the overnight thing. He had enough balls to stick a bear on the ground with some threat to himself, but not enough balls to track down the wounded bear with just his spear, right.

The guy is clearly a sport hunter, I've never been a big fan of those guys. Probably gave away the meat and is not interested in harvesting the animal for food. That's the big difference fo rme.
Steve Rinella is one of the good guys along these lines. He's very good about using the meat he takes.

Definitely agree with that. I can't stand "trophy" guys. I used to see big ol snapper and jacks left to rot after the pictures in Florida. Makes me sick.

I'm fine with a hunter taking the big bull if they get the opportunity. But then we have the professional hunters, that just go out as a full time job to cull, the best genetics of herds with a crew to support them. That's bullshit. Reminds me of Sir George Gore. http://billingsgazette.com/news/feature ... 472ce.html

It is estimated that Gore killed more than 4,000 bison, 1,500 elk, 2,000 deer, 1,500 antelope, 500 bear and hundreds of smaller animals and birds.

This is in one expedition mind you.

[SuburbanFarmer]

I don't much have a problem with the overnight thing. He had enough balls to stick a bear on the ground with some threat to himself, but not enough balls to track down the wounded bear with just his spear, right.

The guy is clearly a sport hunter, I've never been a big fan of those guys. Probably gave away the meat and is not interested in harvesting the animal for food. That's the big difference fo rme.
Steve Rinella is one of the good guys along these lines. He's very good about using the meat he takes.

Definitely agree with that. I can't stand "trophy" guys. I used to see big ol snapper and jacks left to rot after the pictures in Florida. Makes me sick.

I'm fine with a hunter taking the big bull if they get the opportunity. But then we have the professional hunters, that just go out as a full time job to cull, the best genetics of herds with a crew to support them. That's bullshit. Reminds me of Sir George Gore. http://billingsgazette.com/news/feature ... 472ce.html

It is estimated that Gore killed more than 4,000 bison, 1,500 elk, 2,000 deer, 1,500 antelope, 500 bear and hundreds of smaller animals and birds.

This is in one expedition mind you.

Sounds like an epic murder-spree. Pretty disgusting, imo.

[C-Mag]

It is estimated that Gore killed more than 4,000 bison, 1,500 elk, 2,000 deer, 1,500 antelope, 500 bear and hundreds of smaller animals and birds.

This is in one expedition mind you.

Sounds like an epic murder-spree. Pretty disgusting, imo.

Yeah, it was so egregious that guides, who were used to commercial hunting to feed railway crews, left his party, contemporaries of all kinds openly ridiculed Gore. It's one thing for us today to think it was disgusting over the top, but even mid-19th C guys were disgusted by the waste.

[Montegriffo]

Here a guy spears a bear from the ground.

Seen this one before. It's obviously a park-bear, well accustomed to humans, and he's in a campsite with trash barrels.

Looks like a chucklehead, to me, and I'm surprised they'd even allow him to hunt there. Also, his spear shot allowed the animal to suffer and bleed overnight. I mean, yeah it's a kill, but sloppy and unnecessary.

Not a park bear, but might as well be. Private land, bears being fed. So, not a lot of fair chase there. These animals more or less are farmed commodities.
The guy is probably a dick, but he did take a bear from the ground.

The animal doesn't suffer much more or less than if he'd been gut shot, the spear was a gut shot. Animal probably died from septic shock as much as blood loss. Most humans see stuff like this and are taken back, some find it sickening. But really, it's no different than African tribesman taking an elephant, Makha Tribesmen in Washington state taking a whale. Or what everyone forgets is nature is a cruel bitch. These animals don't act like Bambi and the Lion King. They kill each other, they leave animals maimed to die. Man is just an animal, but he is a super predator.

The difference is that "man" killing a bear with a spear did so just to prove his manliness, he has access to firearms and could have killed humanely. He chose not to and posted a video of himself being a "big man".
Equating that with cruelty in nature is dumb and equating it with tribesmen without access to hunting rifles is dumb too.
Macho, exhibitionist cruelty to animals is not the same as cruelty in nature. Would have served him right if that bear had taken his head off.

[Otern]

The difference is that "man" killing a bear with a spear did so just to prove his manliness, he has access to firearms and could have killed humanely. He chose not to and posted a video of himself being a "big man".
Equating that with cruelty in nature is dumb and equating it with tribesmen without access to hunting rifles is dumb too.
Macho, exhibitionist cruelty to animals is not the same as cruelty in nature. Would have served him right if that bear had taken his head off.

You don't know his motivations for hunting with a spear. It could very well be he was trying to prove his manliness to the world. But so what?

This method of hunting do increase the chance of wounding, rather than killing though, which is why I'm on the fence about it.

And it's not cruelty. Cruelty would be intentionally injuring the animal, for the purpose of inflicting pain. Not hunting in a weird way where the intention still is to finish it off quickly, (although with a lot greater risk for missing than with rifles). It might be macho and exhibitionist, but probably not cruel.

But even with rifles, there will always be hunting methods where the risk of injuring rather than killing increases or decreases due to different methods. Is it only ok to hunt if the hunter does it in the absolutely quickest, safest, and surest way?

[SuburbanFarmer]

Seen this one before. It's obviously a park-bear, well accustomed to humans, and he's in a campsite with trash barrels.

Looks like a chucklehead, to me, and I'm surprised they'd even allow him to hunt there. Also, his spear shot allowed the animal to suffer and bleed overnight. I mean, yeah it's a kill, but sloppy and unnecessary.

Not a park bear, but might as well be. Private land, bears being fed. So, not a lot of fair chase there. These animals more or less are farmed commodities.
The guy is probably a dick, but he did take a bear from the ground.

The animal doesn't suffer much more or less than if he'd been gut shot, the spear was a gut shot. Animal probably died from septic shock as much as blood loss. Most humans see stuff like this and are taken back, some find it sickening. But really, it's no different than African tribesman taking an elephant, Makha Tribesmen in Washington state taking a whale. Or what everyone forgets is nature is a cruel bitch. These animals don't act like Bambi and the Lion King. They kill each other, they leave animals maimed to die. Man is just an animal, but he is a super predator.

The difference is that "man" killing a bear with a spear did so just to prove his manliness, he has access to firearms and could have killed humanely. He chose not to and posted a video of himself being a "big man".
Equating that with cruelty in nature is dumb and equating it with tribesmen without access to hunting rifles is dumb too.
Macho, exhibitionist cruelty to animals is not the same as cruelty in nature. Would have served him right if that bear had taken his head off.

+1 That would make one hell of a video, too.

My only caveat is that perhaps this would be useful training for a prepper, who expects to survive in that area. However, I'd expect them to have researched heavily in how to harvest everything, and not be dancing around like an asshole while a wounded bear runs off to die slowly.

Anybody could throw a fucking stick at the thing.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Is it only ok to hunt if the hunter does it in the absolutely quickest, safest, and surest way?

I think that's the moral imperative, yes. Unless training to survive, as noted above.

[Otern]

I could be wrong here, but I don't see much of a reason why the spear hunter couldn't have a buddy with a rifle backing him up and put the bear down after injuring it. Or start to track it down immediately, to put it down, rather than wait for the next day.

[Montegriffo]

The difference is that "man" killing a bear with a spear did so just to prove his manliness, he has access to firearms and could have killed humanely. He chose not to and posted a video of himself being a "big man".
Equating that with cruelty in nature is dumb and equating it with tribesmen without access to hunting rifles is dumb too.
Macho, exhibitionist cruelty to animals is not the same as cruelty in nature. Would have served him right if that bear had taken his head off.

You don't know his motivations for hunting with a spear. It could very well be he was trying to prove his manliness to the world. But so what?

This method of hunting do increase the chance of wounding, rather than killing though, which is why I'm on the fence about it.

And it's not cruelty. Cruelty would be intentionally injuring the animal, for the purpose of inflicting pain. Not hunting in a weird way where the intention still is to finish it off quickly, (although with a lot greater risk for missing than with rifles). It might be macho and exhibitionist, but probably not cruel.

But even with rifles, there will always be hunting methods where the risk of injuring rather than killing increases or decreases due to different methods. Is it only ok to hunt if the hunter does it in the absolutely quickest, safest, and surest way?

I don't know about Norway but in the UK that would lead to a prosecution for cruelty. You are not allowed to hunt with spears, bows, slingshots or even shotguns when hunting anything bigger than a rabbit.
Dear hunters will not take a shot unless they have a high chance of killing with one shot and the power and bore of the ammunition you can use is regulated too.
Cruelty is not taking every reasonable precaution possible to ensure there's no unnecessary suffering.
Stabbing with a spear and leaving to die a painful death over night is definitely cruelty.