Jeff Sessions Comfirmation Hearing

[Smitty-48]

Then surely we would not find dead doctors in that hospital, correct?

I don't beleive the doctors intended to lay the trap, I beleive it to be naivete on their part, they weren't military doctors, they clearly were not aprised of the laws of armed coflict in any detail, and so likely were unaware that they were commiting the crime of omission, that's why I said they "in effect" laid a trap for the US military, rather than "intended".

They were the victims of their own crime of omission under the laws of armed conflict, by failing to mark a hospital which was very subject to infiltration and/or being overrun by armed unlawful combatants, they put themselves in the crosshairs, and did so in breach of the law, the crime is also against their patients bear in mind, in failing to obey the law, they also caused those patients to be put in the crosshairs, the staff of the hospital were repsonsible for their care and protection after all.

[Speaker to Animals]

Yeah, it was more like guilt by negligence. Not firing squad material by any stretch, but the blame should fall on the doctors running that hospital.

Not that properly marking the hospital is going to stop Haji from using it to launch attacks anyway. Something like that is not really practical when dealing with Muslim countries. They ain't Saladin these days..

[SuburbanFarmer]

Yeah, it was more like guilt by negligence. Not firing squad material by any stretch, but the blame should fall on the doctors running that hospital.

Not that properly marking the hospital is going to stop Haji from using it to launch attacks anyway. Something like that is not really practical when dealing with Muslim countries. They ain't Saladin these days..

That's my point. I doubt it was negligence, probably more in the vein of protecting their patients from militia/vigilante violence. It makes perfect sense not to mark a hospital, lest it be overrun by those hostile to the patients. Now, how to balance that with the threat of missile attacks from the Americans?

The doctors are in a Catch22 and paid the ultimate price for beaurocratic bloodlust and lack of thought. I say they're war criminals. There's no reason you couldn't have contacted the doctors or gotten eyes on the ground to evaluate. I'm 98% sure this went more like "well that's probably a hospital, but Bad Guy X is probably there, and who-gives-a-fuck bomb it. Our lawyer said it's fine"

[Speaker to Animals]

Yeah, it was more like guilt by negligence. Not firing squad material by any stretch, but the blame should fall on the doctors running that hospital.

Not that properly marking the hospital is going to stop Haji from using it to launch attacks anyway. Something like that is not really practical when dealing with Muslim countries. They ain't Saladin these days..

That's my point. I doubt it was negligence, probably more in the vein of protecting their patients from militia/vigilante violence. It makes perfect sense not to mark a hospital, lest it be overrun by those hostile to the patients. Now, how to balance that with the threat of missile attacks from the Americans?

The doctors are in a Catch22 and paid the ultimate price for beaurocratic bloodlust and lack of thought. I say they're war criminals. There's no reason you couldn't have contacted the doctors or gotten eyes on the ground to evaluate. I'm 98% sure this went more like "well that's probably a hospital, but Bad Guy X is probably there, and who-gives-a-fuck bomb it. Our lawyer said it's fine"

No, it makes zero sense. Haji knows exactly what it is because the doctors are advertising its services to the local Afghan communities. USAF intelligence, on the other hand, has no idea. All they see are some unmarked tents, and they note that Taliban are launching attacks from that location. Of course they are going to bomb it.

Don't go into a combat zone if you don't understand this basic concept.

[Smitty-48]

If Doctors Without Borders is going to put themselves in harms way, by running a deliberately concealed hospital in an active combat zone, they take their chances in doing so, if they then turn around and accuse the US military of deliberately bombing them just for being a hospital, which is what they have stated, at that point they are waging information warfare against the US military on behalf of the insurgency, which makes them Direct Participants in Hostilities.

DWB wasn't hiding from the Taliban, they informed the Taliban of the presence of the hospital, the Taliban then deliberately went there to draw US fire against it, then DWB sided with the Taliban by enabling the information warfare campaign the Taliban was waging, in trying to use the hospital as a trap, by drawing the Americans into firing on it.

DWB is DPH in cahoots with the Taliban, against the US military.

[Speaker to Animals]

Yep.

[SuburbanFarmer]

If Doctors Without Borders is going to put themselves in harms way, by running a deliberately concealed hospital in an active combat zone, they take their chances in doing so, if they then turn around and accuse the US military of deliberately bombing them just for being a hospital, which is what they have stated, at that point they are waging information warfare against the US military on behalf of the insurgency, which makes them Direct Participants in Hostilities.

DWB wasn't hiding from the Taliban, they informed the Taliban of the presence of the hospital, the Taliban then deliberately went there to draw US fire against it, then DWB sided with the Taliban by enabling the information warfare campaign the Taliban was waging, in trying to use the hospital as a trap, by drawing the Americans into firing on it.

DWB is DPH in cahoots with the Taliban, against the US military.

Fucking nonsense. This is exactly how murder is justified. Apparently our 'limited engagement' is now Total War, and there is no boundary.

It simply does not matter that the Taliban were present in the hospital - that does not justify bombing the building. There is no justification for killing all of the doctors, patients, and civilians that are inside it, just to kill some tribal fighters more quickly. Absolute garbage. All types of people are in a hospital at any given moment - and I have no doubt that this was the same. There were pregnant women, infants, children, old people on life support - whatever. Yet we can't tolerate letting some moron with a fucking rifle exist a moment longer than necessary. Insanity.

Would it be so inconceivable to contact the DWB staff inside, or their leadership and warn them? Offer even a chance to save themselves or stop attacks emanating from the building? Also, I have yet to hear any claim that there were any attacks coming from said hospital. Monstrous.

[Speaker to Animals]

They had no idea it was a hospital.

[SuburbanFarmer]

They had no idea it was a hospital.

That's a shift in your defense. And I doubt it very much. If you have the intel to know who or what is in a building, and are justifying a missile strike, odds are pretty damn strong that you spotted at least a gurney sitting around, or wounded being carried inside.

Shit, even a city map would tell you that, and I have zero doubt that DWB told everyone where they set up shop. You want to pretend that there wasn't a big enough Red Cross on the damn building, so a goddamn disaster is ok? Fine. You're a very different human than myself.

[Speaker to Animals]

They had no idea it was a hospital.

That's a shift in your defense. And I doubt it very much. If you have the intel to know who or what is in a building, and are justifying a missile strike, odds are pretty damn strong that you spotted at least a gurney sitting around, or wounded being carried inside.

Shit, even a city map would tell you that, and I have zero doubt that DWB told everyone where they set up shop.

No, it's not a shift in my defense. They could legally target the hospital, even knowing it was a hospital, when DWB allowed the Taliban to operate from there.

But you came along and implied they did in fact know it was a hospital when they did not.

Even though they could legally attack the hospital, I doubt they would have had they known. I.e. if it was properly marked according to the law.