The Right and the Left need each other - debate

[Montegriffo]

Okay, so I didn't read this whole thread but here are my thoughts:

Yes, they need each. In my mind, it's an imbalance thing. If one party has control 100% then it's shit. If both parties have 50%/50% control then at least that means that compromise can happen and we get a middle ground. Everybody, in theory should be happy.

I agree in principle however, coalition govts tend not to achieve very much and sometimes turn countries into Italy.

[Speaker to Animals]

I reject the premise.

I do agree that an equilibrium of political forces tends to facilitate more stable government, but when one of those forces can only be described as cultural suicide, equilibrium constitutes no virtue at all. I assume most of the leftists would agree with the premise that one could not justify seeking an equilibrium with a fascist right.

Yet today we wrestle with something even worse on the left: marxism. Destroy marxism, I say, and let a new equilibrium form based on healthy and rational political ideologies and viewpoints.

We have been subsidizing revolution with this garbage. No to compromise with marxism. Hell no.

[Cid]

I don't see marxism on the left, at all. I see no movement of a proletariat, there is no sense on the left that an individuals work is the states, if they did we'd be fucked because there are way more stupid liberals than stupid conservatives.

I do not see an argument against the traditional family from the left. Expanding marriage and screwing with gender norms is weird, but even serial monogamy isn't what Engels was on about, and the decay on that front is couched in the argument of individual liberty.

I don't see a serious criticism from religion on the left. There's a disdain for anti-science, which I approve of, and a contempt for wrapping anti-science in belief, but the gayest gay gay to ever gay is about as likely to want the love of God as anyone else. I think there's a war on religion from the conservative side that is every bit as pernicious and poisonous as the attacks from the left.

Religion is getting screwed because dumb people on both sides think they're very smart and know the mind of God, or they think the inability to do that means that God does not exist. Rational believers are then left with the unenviable position of keeping the flame, and that shit does not put food on the table sadly, so its a part time gig for most.

[Speaker to Animals]

Don't be obtuse. They replaced economic classes with other identity politics such as race, gender, and sexuality. Feminism is a form of marxism that replaced economic classes with gender classes, with women cast as the victim class and men cast as the oppressors. They do the same with race, casting whites as the oppressors and blacks as the victim class. Then they invented the concept of intersectionality to combine all of this to identify the latest scapegoat of Marxist hate: straight white men.

[Cid]

Obtuse? You're fucking kidding. Now you're just labeling random shit marxist and claiming an intellectual continuity that doesn't exist.

Just go film yourself in front of a chalkboard if you're going to put forward blatantly specious shit.

[Speaker to Animals]

So this is the part where you fly into a rage because people don't agree with you?

[Speaker to Animals]

I am all for having a robust left wing. Just not marxism.

[Cid]

So this is the part where you fly into a rage because people don't agree with you?

Let me put it another way, when liberals call Trump fascist, I have to tell them I could not take them less seriously if they dressed up as concentration camp victims to protest while facebooking on their iphone and sipping some organic tree jizz.

When you say "marxist" my inclination is similar because the reality of what they want is so different than what you think they want that it is insane.

[Speaker to Animals]

You can call it whatever you want. You know what I described and you know it is pervasive on the left today. It's a fucking cancer on western civilization that absolutely must be eliminated. You are behaving exactly like them by policing my language and trying to redefine words more favorable to your side. The fact is the left in the western world right now has become dangerously evil.

Go listen to that talk from that Canadian academic if you don't want to hear it from me.

This shit has to stop.

[SuburbanFarmer]

You can call it whatever you want. You know what I described and you know it is pervasive on the left today. It's a fucking cancer on western civilization that absolutely must be eliminated. You are behaving exactly like them by policing my language and trying to redefine words more favorable to your side. The fact is the left in the western world right now has become dangerously evil.

Go listen to that talk from that Canadian academic if you don't want to hear it from me.

This shit has to stop.

I could just as easily level these charges against the Far Right in this country. Racism, nationalism, and fear-mongering are NO less dangerous than social stupidity. Indeed, the danger is spread to entire globe, because of our pivotal position in the economic and military balance of the planet.

Lastly, as Dan has pointed out so many time, our Left is still to the Right of the rest of the first world. That's not something to disregard, if you're interested in balance.