Turkey Has Proof of US/ISIS Cooperation

[Okeefenokee]

I think the point is that nobody posting here would suggest the Obama administration is totally off the hook, vis a vis ISIS. That is very different than cooperating with ISIS... sort of an omission versus commission deal. But it is hard to have that conversation, which would be an interesting conversation with the sort of interesting, sourced material we all like, when being told you are basically personally raping Yazidis for thinking Clinton might not deserve the death penalty.

Point to a single person on this forum who has tried to say the last 8 years have been a blemish free triumph of an administration. I don't think there is one.

How could the Obama Administration have prevented AQI from metastasizing into the Daesh in Syria?

What is keep troops in Iraq?

I'll take "Let's call a spade a spade," for four hundred.

[skankhunt42]

I think the point is that nobody posting here would suggest the Obama administration is totally off the hook, vis a vis ISIS. That is very different than cooperating with ISIS... sort of an omission versus commission deal. But it is hard to have that conversation, which would be an interesting conversation with the sort of interesting, sourced material we all like, when being told you are basically personally raping Yazidis for thinking Clinton might not deserve the death penalty.

Point to a single person on this forum who has tried to say the last 8 years have been a blemish free triumph of an administration. I don't think there is one.

How could the Obama Administration have prevented AQI from metastasizing into the Daesh in Syria?

This made me laugh out loud. That is all.

[Smitty-48]

I think the point is that nobody posting here would suggest the Obama administration is totally off the hook, vis a vis ISIS. That is very different than cooperating with ISIS... sort of an omission versus commission deal. But it is hard to have that conversation, which would be an interesting conversation with the sort of interesting, sourced material we all like, when being told you are basically personally raping Yazidis for thinking Clinton might not deserve the death penalty.

Point to a single person on this forum who has tried to say the last 8 years have been a blemish free triumph of an administration. I don't think there is one.

How could the Obama Administration have prevented AQI from metastasizing into the Daesh in Syria?

What is keep troops in Iraq?

I'll take "Let's call a spade a spade," for four hundred.

But AQI fled Iraq into Syria, the troops in Iraq had driven AQI out, but it wasn't in Iraq where AQI became the Daesh, they became the Daesh in Syria, when the Sunni's rose up against the Alawite Baathist coalition, if the troops where in Iraq, then those troops would simply be soft targets being attacked by the Daesh from their stronghold in Syria, where the US troops would not be able to get at them, it would be like Vietnam, the Daesh would attack US troops in Iraq, slipping back and forth across the border, making it a nightmare scenario for US troops.

Keeping troops in Iraq would not have prevented AQI from metastasizing into the Daesh in Syria, don't be naive. The situation would be the same as it is now, the only difference would be, the casualities you would be suffering, with US troops as sitting ducks caught in the crossfire.

The meltdown in Syria was not provoked from Iraq, it was provoked by Assad, the Sunnis in Syria are not backed from Iraq, they are backed by Saudi Arabia, there's absolutely nothing that US troops could have done to prevent it, the fact of the matter is, Obama got your troops out of there, just in the nick of time.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

I think the point is that nobody posting here would suggest the Obama administration is totally off the hook, vis a vis ISIS. That is very different than cooperating with ISIS... sort of an omission versus commission deal. But it is hard to have that conversation, which would be an interesting conversation with the sort of interesting, sourced material we all like, when being told you are basically personally raping Yazidis for thinking Clinton might not deserve the death penalty.

Point to a single person on this forum who has tried to say the last 8 years have been a blemish free triumph of an administration. I don't think there is one.

How could the Obama Administration have prevented AQI from metastasizing into the Daesh in Syria?

You would have more interesting things to say on that than I.

I think trying to end a perpetual occupation was probably done with the best intentions... I don't know if you get have both though... ie, no perpetual occupation, no Daesh.

edit: just saw your response to okee. So, Smitty, you don't think US troops in Iraq could have stopped the growth of IS?

edit2: just saw your edit to your response to okee... question answered.

[Okeefenokee]

ISIS would be in Syria, sure, but they would never have taken a third of Iraq against the US, and would not have risen to anywhere near their peak of strength. The Iraqi Army might have retreated, might not have, but ISIS would not have taken any territory in Iraq for any considerable time. Would not have happened.

[Smitty-48]

So, Smitty, you don't think US troops in Iraq could have stopped the growth of IS?

US troops drew AQI to Iraq, from Afganistan, that's where Zarqawi came from, he started off working for Bin Laden, then he went to Iraq to found AQI, the nascent IS was born in a US detention camp, when US troops put AQI in the prison together after killing Zarqawi, al-Bagdadi was a US agent inside the prison, but what he did was use this freedom of movement and acess to the whole prison, to become the founder of IS, but they didn't become a going concern, until they gained a safe haven on the other side of the border, in Syria, when the Sunnis, backed by Saudi Arabia, rose up against the Assad regine.

There's nothing US troops could have done to prevent the Arab Spring from coming to Syria, there's nothing US troops could have done to prevent Sadui Arabia from miliarizing it, there's nothing US troops could have done to prevent the growth of IS in the chaos therein.

[Smitty-48]

ISIS would be in Syria, sure, but they would never have taken a third of Iraq against the US, and would not have risen to anywhere near their peak of strength. The Iraqi Army might have retreated, might not have, but ISIS would not have taken any territory in Iraq for any considerable time. Would not have happened.

They would just be attacking your troops in Iraq from their stronghold in Syria, you would be suffering an endless drip-drip-drip of casualities, while making absolutely no headway against them, IS would only be strengthened by a US presence, that would simply draw more Sunnis to the AO to attack you, you have absolutely no effective defense against IS where you have boots on the ground en masse, that's what they want, that's the only way they could really hurt you.

In the end, Obama saved you from yourselves.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

So, Smitty, you don't think US troops in Iraq could have stopped the growth of IS?

US troops drew AQI to Iraq, from Afganistan, that's where Zarqawi came from, he started off working for Bin Laden, then he went to Iraq to found AQI, the nascent IS was born in a US detention camp, when US troops put AQI in the prison together after killing Zarqawi, al-Bagdadi was a US agent inside the prison, but what he did was use this freedom of movement and acess to the whole prison, to become the founder of IS, but they didn't become a going concern, until they gained a safe haven on the other side of the border, in Syria, when the Sunnis, backed by Saudi Arabia, rose up against the Assad regine.

There's nothing US troops could have done to prevent the Arab Spring from coming to Syria, there's nothing US troops could have done to prevent Sadui Arabia from miliarizing it, there's nothing US troops could have done to prevent the growth of IS in the chaos therein.

So all these toys I've been paying for aren't good for anything but padding your pocket with sweet LMT money?

GOD DAMNIT! REVOLUTION ON!

[Smitty-48]

So all these toys I've been paying for aren't good for anything but padding your pocket with sweet LMT money?

LMT's job is deter the Russians and Chinese so that you never have to fight an industrial interstate total war again, LMT can't save you from the quagmire of trying to put Iraqi-Dumpty back together again, LMT is a defense contractor, they're not miracle workers.

LMT does not make any weapons, which could ever slay American Imperial Hubris.

[Okeefenokee]

ISIS would be in Syria, sure, but they would never have taken a third of Iraq against the US, and would not have risen to anywhere near their peak of strength. The Iraqi Army might have retreated, might not have, but ISIS would not have taken any territory in Iraq for any considerable time. Would not have happened.

They would just be attacking your troops in Iraq from their stronghold in Syria, you would be suffering an endless drip-drip-drip of casualities, while making absolutely no headway against them, IS would only be strengthened by a US presence, that would simply draw more Sunnis to the AO to attack you, you have absolutely no effective defense against IS where you have boots on the ground en masse, that's what they want, that's the only way they could really hurt you.

In the end, Obama saved you from yourselves.

Bullshit. ISIS was only what it was because of it's success against the IA. No hollywood IA victories, no draw to ISIS. The folding up of the IA by ISIS was what made them. With a US force in theater, ISIS hits a wall, and is left far less strengthened against Assad. US troops in Iraq stops, or probably even prevents entirely their incursion into Iraq, and all they are is another rebel group in Syria.

No Mosul oil money. No US weapons and vehicles. No propaganda wins. ISIS is nothing without a successful invasion of northern Iraq, and with US troops in Iraq, that never happens.