How's that Obamacare Repeal Working Out For You?

[K@th]

It's an ideological purity spiral.

We have to go with practicality and effectiveness. No practical or effective solution is going to comport to some ideology.

I'm stunned by how much I'm agreeing with you these last few pages. Spot on.... I guess it's hard to recognize when you aren't married to an ideology.

Hard for me to blame others for making that mistake when you keep bringing up the "Dying In the Streets" card.

It's not a new argument for me, though I usually take the other side. These are the exact questions we need to ask so we can determine what we are willing to do.

Here's where I am.

I'm not willing to do nothing. (people dying in the streets)
I'm not willing to do everything. (spending hundreds of thousands to gain hours of life at the end)

I'm in the middle of those two extremes, but nobody here really wants to have those conversations.

How do we get there? I don't know. I know we absolutely won't get there until we start asking people what they are willing to do and not willing to do. My question was not one to emote guilt; it's to provoke thought.

[Fife]

It's an ideological purity spiral.

We have to go with practicality and effectiveness. No practical or effective solution is going to comport to some ideology.

I disagree.

Anyway, what are you saying? The only "practical or effective solutions" comport to NO ideology? That must be exhausting.

[K@th]

That's pretty much what they're saying. If you get sick and the cure is outside of your ability to pay it back? Too bad, so sad, should have made more money. Okee pays his own way, and if he or his gets sick enough that it outstrips his ability to pay? Guess he'll have to stand on principle and let him and/or his die.

Here's the thing; I don't think he thinks that, but he argues so dishonestly that that's how it comes out in his writing. See my earlier post; I simply think he doesn't want to answer the difficult questions. He just knows he doesn't want to pay for it. (I'm trying to define IT.)

[jediuser598]

That's pretty much what they're saying. If you get sick and the cure is outside of your ability to pay it back? Too bad, so sad, should have made more money. Okee pays his own way, and if he or his gets sick enough that it outstrips his ability to pay? Guess he'll have to stand on principle and let him and/or his die.

Stop playing the "dying in the streets" card. That's a losing argument, and a blatant appeal to emotions as a way to dismiss those you disagree with.

It's not bullshit.

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsa1202099

People are going to die if this gets repealed.

[K@th]

Anyway, what are you saying? The only "practical or effective solutions" comport to NO ideology? That must be exhausting.

Ew this is super weird.....

Not no ideology, but one that is flexible to realize that there's ideal and there's "what's actually gonna work."

[jediuser598]

That's pretty much what they're saying. If you get sick and the cure is outside of your ability to pay it back? Too bad, so sad, should have made more money. Okee pays his own way, and if he or his gets sick enough that it outstrips his ability to pay? Guess he'll have to stand on principle and let him and/or his die.

Here's the thing; I don't think he thinks that, but he argues so dishonestly that that's how it comes out in his writing. See my earlier post; I simply think he doesn't want to answer the difficult questions. He just knows he doesn't want to pay for it. (I'm trying to define IT.)

It's so easy for people to put others in danger. What he doesn't realize is that he is one bad day away from needing that very same safety net he rallies against, that he votes against. No one is going to stand on principle and watch their kid die.

[Fife]

Anyway, what are you saying? The only "practical or effective solutions" comport to NO ideology? That must be exhausting.

Ew this is super weird.....

Not no ideology, but one that is flexible to realize that there's ideal and there's "what's actually gonna work."

OK, I'm game. What is the ideology that is going to make state-managed "healthcare" "work?" And what are it's "flexible" points?

[StCapps]

My question was not one to emote guilt; it's to provoke thought.

Well that's naive, because even playing the "dying in the streets" card, is going to lead people to think you are trying to make others feel guilty. Of course the answer lies between the two extremes, but neither extreme is on the table so when you bring it up the way that you did, it makes people think that you think they are these extremists. It's not hard to see, how they made that mistake.

[StCapps]

It's not bullshit.

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsa1202099

People are going to die if this gets repealed.

You're hopeless.

[K@th]

OK, I'm game. What is the ideology that is going to make state-managed "healthcare" "work?" And what are it's "flexible" points?

Not once in this thread have I ever claimed to know the answers. Do you know? Psst. I'm against state managed healthcare, personally. I thought you knew that?