Public School Education System Thread

[Speaker to Animals]

All the examples given were perpetrated by governments against a disarmed populace. They also notably neglected to mention the apocalyptic body count of Marxism and militant atheism.

[clubgop]

Lmfao what the hell is that

Your support of NPR and PBS at work.

Wasn't bad until they went off the rails with the hitler stuff.

Government is required to avoid anarchy but it's not a magical panacea either lol.

No its written horribly. Like talking to an 8 year old. Really, to go snowboarding? To stand on a piece of wood and let gravity pull you down a hill requires government? Fucking really? Eating shit and playing video games? As if that is an acceptable or laudable pursuit for young grown ups? Really? Fuck that. If that is the choice between that and anarchy then fine I am going to Somilia and joining Trek in his pirating adventure.

[Okeefenokee]

Wow.

[doc_loliday]

I've been to some bad schools, in Atlanta for instance, but mostly I've been in really good schools with plenty of funding and competent teachers, etc. The whole nine yards.

The students have their share of responsibility in this. You can beat on teachers all you like, very few people can make kids, especially the smartphone generation, give a shit about school. Very very few kids would be in school if it was their choice to make. We get them to cooperate with threats of punishment and promises of wealth in the future. They aren't there because they want to learn, so why is it so shocking that they aren't learning?

How can you make them want to learn? For the most part, you can't. The human race is not one monolithic block of mental mathing book worms. Some people would rather talk about or play sports. Some people would rather talk about, watch, or take part in human drama. Some people would rather play video games.

I suppose you could invent some new schools. Besides the academic school you'd have the sports school, the drama school, the video game school, etc, and all day the students would only study and take part in the things they're interested in. I mean, we're already giving out useless degrees. Let's take it a step further.

Forcing kids to do shit they mostly hate and will never use seems counter productive. Even good students from good high schools often remember very little from most of their classes soon after they are done. So when Johnny is taught history, or proper think on climate change or whatever, unless he pursues it, its basically useless and mostly forgotten.

Reading and counting are probably the only universal skills that virtually all Americans can do, out of necessity. Beyond those subjects, I wonder if letting the parents and kids decide what they want to study is the better choice. Let the math kids gravitate one direction, the history lovers can pursue their interests, and if kids just want to fix or bhild things they can do that. It doesn't matter if they change their minds either, they're actually learning.

[Zlaxer]

I've been to some bad schools, in Atlanta for instance, but mostly I've been in really good schools with plenty of funding and competent teachers, etc. The whole nine yards.

The students have their share of responsibility in this. You can beat on teachers all you like, very few people can make kids, especially the smartphone generation, give a shit about school. Very very few kids would be in school if it was their choice to make. We get them to cooperate with threats of punishment and promises of wealth in the future. They aren't there because they want to learn, so why is it so shocking that they aren't learning?

How can you make them want to learn? For the most part, you can't. The human race is not one monolithic block of mental mathing book worms. Some people would rather talk about or play sports. Some people would rather talk about, watch, or take part in human drama. Some people would rather play video games.

I suppose you could invent some new schools. Besides the academic school you'd have the sports school, the drama school, the video game school, etc, and all day the students would only study and take part in the things they're interested in. I mean, we're already giving out useless degrees. Let's take it a step further.

Forcing kids to do shit they mostly hate and will never use seems counter productive. Even good students from good high schools often remember very little from most of their classes soon after they are done. So when Johnny is taught history, or proper think on climate change or whatever, unless he pursues it, its basically useless and mostly forgotten.

Reading and counting are probably the only universal skills that virtually all Americans can do, out of necessity. Beyond those subjects, I wonder if letting the parents and kids decide what they want to study is the better choice. Let the math kids gravitate one direction, the history lovers can pursue their interests, and if kids just want to fix or bhild things they can do that. It doesn't matter if they change their minds either, they're actually learning.

Just give kids the ability to drop.out after 8th grade......forcing degenerates into schools makes it hell for everyone else - they're loss causes at this point - no families, no discipline, no honor - not job of tax payer to give them those.....but will NVR happen, DNC machine needs "students" in seats like prison union needs inmates.....

[MilSpecs]

Forcing kids to do shit they mostly hate and will never use seems counter productive. Even good students from good high schools often remember very little from most of their classes soon after they are done. So when Johnny is taught history, or proper think on climate change or whatever, unless he pursues it, its basically useless and mostly forgotten.

Reading and counting are probably the only universal skills that virtually all Americans can do, out of necessity. Beyond those subjects, I wonder if letting the parents and kids decide what they want to study is the better choice. Let the math kids gravitate one direction, the history lovers can pursue their interests, and if kids just want to fix or bhild things they can do that. It doesn't matter if they change their minds either, they're actually learning.

Through 8th grade is supposed to be the period of schooling where the knowledge base is acquired and enforced, and where kids learn how to function in society with their fellow citizens. If they're going to learn what they need in that period of time, something else has to go away. That something else is likely to be what the kid is actually interested in, because the basics don't leave room for much else in the traditional school day.

[Speaker to Animals]

I've come to realize that, in lots of ways, we need to be forced to do the opposite of what we want and what interests us for our own good. Kids who just want to do fitness and sports all day should be forced to do more academics. Kids who want to do academics all the time should be forced to lift weights and compete in sports. What ends up happening is that people charge off doing only the things they think will bring them immediate joy to the detriment of everything else, often when focusing on other pursuits they think bore them will bring them more longterm (actual) happiness. The best case of this kind of education policy is for people to become extremely specialized very early in life. You'll see jocks who are really good at sports and physically active who can't do simple math or who have never read a book. You'll see academics who go on to graduate school and specialize in a specific subfield who can't lift, become weak, and suffer in life because they subconsciously feel inadequate and intimidated by other males.

The nature of modern life is that we all are on a path of specialization. What we need to do is force generalization to some extent and mount some modest effort in a more holistic education. People *want* to specialize very badly. It's not even just the economic pressures. I think it's just how we are wired. But our best interests are in a holistic approach to knowledge and skills. This doesn't mean we shouldn't specialized either. I am just saying that we need to actually force kids to do the things they don't want to do. You have to eat your vegetables, real and metaphorical.

[doc_loliday]

Through 8th grade is supposed to be the period of schooling where the knowledge base is acquired and enforced, and where kids learn how to function in society with their fellow citizens. If they're going to learn what they need in that period of time, something else has to go away. That something else is likely to be what the kid is actually interested in, because the basics don't leave room for much else in the traditional school day.

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at, but I don't think it takes eight years to do the basics, which by my definition is basically reading and arithmetic, and I chose those since virtually all Americans can read and count, out of necessity.

@Mil and Sta, I hope it goes without saying that children should be pushed into uncomfortable situations, simply because a lot of kids would do nothing. But for one thing we're at the homogenization end of the spectrum, we couldn't be further from specialization. And two, even straight A students often don't remember what they learned after passing their classes. This is why I'm opposed to the way we teach now, there's very little retention, and I don't think that k-12, or even college, teaches one how to think.

I like the idea of a small core of necessary material and elective learning, which involves the parents, and not the fed. If you want the traditional approach, then go for it. But this way kids aren't held back and learning is less of a chore. I think they would be more inclined to actually learn to think for themselves this way and may go on to develop a love of learning.

[MilSpecs]

Through 8th grade is supposed to be the period of schooling where the knowledge base is acquired and enforced, and where kids learn how to function in society with their fellow citizens. If they're going to learn what they need in that period of time, something else has to go away. That something else is likely to be what the kid is actually interested in, because the basics don't leave room for much else in the traditional school day.

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at, but I don't think it takes eight years to do the basics, which by my definition is basically reading and arithmetic, and I chose those since virtually all Americans can read and count, out of necessity.

@Mil and Sta, I hope it goes without saying that children should be pushed into uncomfortable situations, simply because a lot of kids would do nothing. But for one thing we're at the homogenization end of the spectrum, we couldn't be further from specialization. And two, even straight A students often don't remember what they learned after passing their classes. This is why I'm opposed to the way we teach now, there's very little retention, and I don't think that k-12, or even college, teaches one how to think.

I like the idea of a small core of necessary material and elective learning, which involves the parents, and not the fed. If you want the traditional approach, then go for it. But this way kids aren't held back and learning is less of a chore. I think they would be more inclined to actually learn to think for themselves this way and may go on to develop a love of learning.

I'm conflicted between love of learning vs. stronger basic education. My kids liked school much better than kids did when I was in school. It was much more the center of their lives, which was also good because it gave them a strong and positive community to be part of. That said, they simply didn't learn the basics as quickly or as thoroughly. A chunk of time was taken up with technology (which didn't exist back in the day). Extracurriculars were much more a part of their lives. That made them more disciplined in general and more accustomed to pressure. I can't fault any of these things, but again, I look at the knowledge base and ability to solve problems, and I just don't see the same capability. They do great at their specialized skills, but it seems we're losing a lot as a people as we specialize. How many people don't even know the basic structure of our government, or key events and times in our history? The difference between bacteria and viruses?

So as far as the basics: what is needed to live a well-functioning life. For math, through algebra and geometry. Reading and writing: vocabulary, spelling, sentence structure/grammar, paragraph composition, and reading for meaning. Science: through life and mechanical sciences (that used to end in 10th grade). Art and music: the principles and maybe a little history. Civics, as much as we can give them. An overview of world and American history. Home ec and shop: basic life skills. Health, "the" life skill. I'm sure I'm missing something important, but these are what you need to be a successful human being in this century.

[Zlaxer]

How many people don't even know the basic structure of our government, or key events and times in our history? The difference between bacteria and viruses?

Lots - the common man is a fucking idiot. I still find my self genuinely shocked at how petty, selfish, fake, and just plain dumb most people are.