Russia! Russia!! Russia!!!

[kybkh]

An anonymous source informed me Putin will "have more flexibility after the next election".

[ssu]

Russia's objective is to keep Ukraine, just like Georgia, out of NATO.

Nope, the opposite in fact, the Russians never believed that Ukraine was going to be formally inducted into NATO, but the Siloviki need NATO at the gates in order to justify their existence, so they are deliberately inciting a conflict to draw NATO closer, which is working, because there's more NATO in Ukraine now than ever, and more coming all the time.

The Siloviki want Cold War 2.0, NATO being drawn into Ukraine is all part of the program.

Opposite? They surely do not want NATO at their border like at the Baltic States.

Now a normal cool headed Russian politician wouldn't have acted as Putin did when the Ukraine had it's revolution.

And there are several reasons for this:

1) Ukraine had already had many "colour" revolutions and a dysfunctional political system that likely
cannot solve the deep underlying problems. Hence Ukraine wouldn't have looked good for NATO membership.
They could simply sit out this pro-European government until it falls itself.

2) If Russia would have stayed out, it still would have all the Pro-Russian voices inside Ukraine.

3) Before Crimea Russia had a very good reputation. Georgia had been forgotten. After all, there was a restart of relations with the Obama administration.

4) Ukrainians, even those in Western Ukraine, had a reasonably good views about Russia and the Russians.

Putin took a gamble when Ukraine was on it's knees. Getting back Crimea likely gets him the thing he will be remembered in Russian history books. But it comes with a cost. But as you say, the siloviki need to justify their existence.

[Smitty-48]

Russia's objective is to keep Ukraine, just like Georgia, out of NATO.

Nope, the opposite in fact, the Russians never believed that Ukraine was going to be formally inducted into NATO, but the Siloviki need NATO at the gates in order to justify their existence, so they are deliberately inciting a conflict to draw NATO closer, which is working, because there's more NATO in Ukraine now than ever, and more coming all the time.

The Siloviki want Cold War 2.0, NATO being drawn into Ukraine is all part of the program.

Opposite? They surely do not want NATO at their border like at the Baltic States.

Yes they do, that's the whole point, that's exactly what they want, they want NATO right at the gates as a menace which will justify their whole agenda, peaceful coexistence with NATO is not only not in the Siloviki's interests, without NATO right at the gates to spook the Russian population, the Siloviki are actually imperiled as a ruling class.

Wake up, ssu, Cold War 2.0 is an entrenched interest, and it's not viable unless you crank things right up to the brink again, and for that, you need a trace, right on the frontier.

[ssu]

Yes they do, that's the whole point, that's exactly what they want, they want NATO right at the gates as a menace which will justify their whole agenda, peaceful coexistence with NATO is not only not in the Silovki's interests, without NATO right at the gates to spook the Russian population, the Siloviki are actually imperiled as a ruling class.

Wake up, ssu, Cold War 2.0 is an entrenched interest, and it's not viable unless you crank things right up to the brink again, and for that, you need a trace, right on the frontier.

Smitty, I am awake.

The officers leading our armed forces starting frantically to change the plans after Crimea woke me up. Georgian war in 2008 didn't wake them up, but Ukraine did.

I get your point, but I don't think they want Finland and Sweden to be officially in NATO. Now if Putin would annex Belarus (which is more a theoretical thing), it would be interesting to see if Sweden would panic and apply for NATO (which would put Finland on the same spot).

Mattis few days ago in Ukraine.

[Smitty-48]

Yes they do, that's the whole point, that's exactly what they want, they want NATO right at the gates as a menace which will justify their whole agenda, peaceful coexistence with NATO is not only not in the Silovki's interests, without NATO right at the gates to spook the Russian population, the Siloviki are actually imperiled as a ruling class.

Wake up, ssu, Cold War 2.0 is an entrenched interest, and it's not viable unless you crank things right up to the brink again, and for that, you need a trace, right on the frontier.

Smitty, I am awake.

The officers leading our armed forces starting frantically to change the plans after Crimea woke me up. Georgian war in 2008 didn't wake them up, but Ukraine did.

I get your point, but I don't think they want Finland and Sweden to be officially in NATO. Now if Putin would annex Belarus (which is more a theoretical thing), it would be interesting to see if Sweden would panic and apply for NATO (which would put Finland on the same spot).

They want it all to be NATO, of course they do, what are you smoking, ssu? Place the officer kool-aid on the deck and step away, the Siloviki are not afraid of a NATO incursion all the way to a trace at the brink, they're afraid that there won't be one.

What possible difference does it make, in operational sense, if Sweden is in NATO? They're already an American proxy for all intents and purposes, the Siloviki would much rather that be fomalized so they could turn to the Russian street and say "See?! What did we tell you? Now get back in your holes and put your helmets back on, Czar Putin's got this, but you need to buck up and tighten those belts, this is war for national survival at the gates..."

[Smitty-48]

The idea that the VSRF is worried about the Swedish? I mean, get real, the Swedes are right in the kill zone, in an actual shooting war, Sweden wouldn't last a day, the Russians would just take Goteborg, then brandish their nuclear weapons, and the Swedes would fold like a leaf.

Sweden in NATO, simply further justifies the Russian program of preparing to take the eastern Baltic by force, it's all the same entrenched interest, it's all part and parcel of the Russian MIC's bread and butter, and it's all inclusive to the threat which makes the Russian street willing to tighten their belts to pay for it.

Neutral Sweden is counterproductive to the Siloviki's agenda, the idea of Sweden flipping into the NATO camp gives them a chubb dog, that's playing right into their hands. Which is exaclty why those bourgeois Swedish elites in Stockholm are hesistant to do it.

Now that oil and the ruble have crashed and the sanctions are starting to bite, inciting NATO right to the gates is more important than ever, it's only the game in town at this point.

[ssu]

They want it all to be NATO, of course they do, what are you smoking, ssu? Place the officer kool-aid on the deck and step away, the Siloviki are not afraid of a NATO incursion all the way to a trace at the brink, they're afraid that there won't be one.

What possible difference does it make, in operational sense, if Sweden is in NATO? They're already an American proxy for all intents and purposes, the Siloviki would much rather that be fomalized so they could turn to the Russian street and say "See?! What did we tell you? Now get back in your holes and put your helmets back on, Czar Putin's got this, but you need to buck up and tighten those belts, this is war for national survival at the gates..."

Perhaps they don't opt for the North Korean way to get justification for the military.

If Sweden and Finland are everything else and 100% compatible, but not official NATO members, there's allways the possibility that in a crisis happening somewhere between NATO and Russia, these countries would stay out. Stick to their "non-aligned" status. Try to be "intermediaries". Be nice with Putin.

By the way, when ZAPAD happens, Sweden is making their own excersize in Gotland. Finnish troops participate there. And US too.
So at least the Russian aren't going to get Gotland.

Hence this September the Baltic Sea will be very, very war-like with a lot of excersizes at the same time.

Aurora’, the largest military exercise in Sweden in 20 years, aligns the country even closer with NATO

For three weeks in September 2017, Sweden will be turned into a military training ground. A third of the country, especially the capital Stockholm, the second largest city Gothenburg and the island of Gotland will be designated training areas. In total there will be about 20.000 participating soldiers – from the United States, Finland, France, Estonia, Norway and Denmark, in addition to soldiers from the host country.

Chairman of the Swedish parliament’s defense committee, Allan Widman, commented approvingly «The fact is that Sweden has been on its way to a NATO-membership for 25 years. Everything that has happened the last 25 years, have been in the direction of NATO. This recommendation is just yet another confirmation of where Sweden really belongs.

And from the official site of the Swedish Armed forces:

Aurora 17 will be conducted in the air, on land and at sea. Units from all over Sweden will be involved, but the main exercise areas will be the Mälardalen and Stockholm areas, on and around Gotland, and the Gothenburg area.

The Exercise will contribute to the development of Sweden’s total defence capabilities. Therefore, it is planned that around 40 other agencies will participate. In addition, in order to have as good an exercise as possible, and at the same time exercise Sweden’s defence capability against a larger, sophisticated opponent, other countries have been invited to participate in Aurora 17.

So the US playing the Russians???

Next January Sweden is getting conscripts again.

[Smitty-48]

In an actual shooting war, half the Europeans, led by countries like Sweden, would duck and cover and leave the Americans holding the bag, NATO is basically three of Five Eyes, the United States, the United Kingdom, and Canada, everybody else is optional, and as soon as the fur started to fly, you'd see it all fly apart with the Western Europeans sheltering in place, and the Anglosphere bypassing them all the way to the new NATO 1st Army headquaters on the Vistula in Warsaw, SACEUR to the forward CP, no surrender monkeys to be seen anywhere round him.

And the Russians well know it, which is why they don't give a shit about the Surrender Monkey contingent, they're only worried about Five Eyes, and its newest bestest proxy, Poland.

[Speaker to Animals]

LOL

"Defensive arms"?

[Speaker to Animals]

In an actual shooting war, half the Europeans, led by countries like Sweden, would duck and cover and leave the Americans holding the bag, NATO is basically three of Five Eyes, the United States, the United Kingdom, and Canada, everybody else is optional, and as soon as the fur started to fly, you'd see it all fly apart with the Western Europeans sheltering in place, and the Anglosphere bypassing them all the way to the new NATO 1st Army headquaters on the Vistula in Warsaw, SACEUR to the forward CP, no surrender monkeys to be seen anywhere round him.

And the Russians well know it, which is why they don't give a shit about the Surrender Monkey contingent, they're only worried about Five Eyes, and its newest bestest proxy, Poland.

Poland is the new master race. It's sad to see the Germans turn into cucks and get eradicated by Muslims, but oh well.