North Korea News

[Smitty-48]

The North Koreans have no air defense of any real significance, nothing the US couldn't knock down with ease, at which point it would be a slaughter, Highway of Death, but the NK strategy is not actually to invade South Korea en masse, they are an artillery based Army, Soviet doctrine on steroids, holding the city of Seoul hostage, due to its proximity to the border, but other than wrecking Seoul to one degree or another, they have no hope of going over to the offense and driving deep into the ROK, because without air cover, they would be pummeled into a paste before they even came to grips with American ground forces beyond the Cavalry screen.

This is where the navy would come into play. Shoot shells into land targets... now that be fun to see.

But that would just a be a sop to the Navy, finding them something to do, when really it would be the Air Force dropping PGM's, and the Army attack helicopters blasting away, followed by a counterattack with the Abrams, Paladin and MLRS, which would be doing all the heavy lifting, the Navy would just be on the periphery trying to get in the game, from the sidelines, again.

[SuburbanFarmer]

The North Koreans have no air defense of any real significance, nothing the US couldn't knock down with ease, at which point it would be a slaughter, Highway of Death, but the NK strategy is not actually to invade South Korea en masse, they are an artillery based Army, Soviet doctrine on steroids, holding the city of Seoul hostage, due to its proximity to the border, but other than wrecking Seoul to one degree or another, they have no hope of going over to the offense and driving deep into the ROK, because without air cover, they would be pummeled into a paste before they even came to grips with American ground forces beyond the Cavalry screen.

This is where the navy would come into play. Shoot shells into land targets... now that be fun to see.

But that would just a be a sop to the Navy, finding them something to do, when really it would be the Air Force dropping PGM's, and the Army attack helicopters blasting away, followed by a counterattack with the Abrams, Paladin and MLRS, which would be doing all the heavy lifting, the Navy would just be on the periphery trying to get in the game, from the sidelines, again.

I'm sure we could find them an airfield to make a mess of, or something. Pop off another $100 Bill for show.

[Smitty-48]

The sea still matters, but you don't actually need the Navy and Marine Corps to conduct Expeditionary Warfare anymore, they Navy still has a role for sea control, and sea denial, ruling the waves as it were, but they are no longer needed to go ashore, the Air Force and Army can go ashore by airpower alone, destroy the enemy, capture the beachhead, and then as far as sealift goes, that's not the Navy nor Marine Corps doing that, again, that's the Ready Reserve Fleet, which is not a navy nor an amphibious force, but rather a chartered quasi-commerical enterprize, contracted cargo ships, Ro-Ro, crewed by civilians.

Putting civilian ships in harms way could be a problem. It's totally understandable that countries want Ready Reserve Fleet with Reservist or some Auxilary force where you can trust the crews. Otherwise, wouldn't be a great thing to bribe the Thirld World country crew to simply ditch a ro-ro ship full of material? And in some total war scenario with North Korea have that amphibious capability might be good if the ports are bombed out, but otherwise it's more useful just to have a ton civilian of Ro-Ro ships. With trustworthy crews that will take them into dangerous waters.

It's still an impressive fleet:


Yet then there's the one problem with civilian ships. They aren't armed and don't have things like modern CIWS. And when you start protecting/arming those ships, back to square one.

When transiting to war:


After an encounter with two Exocet missiles, before sinking:

Yeah, that's a big wall of text, but you missed the part where the Americans wouldn't even have to send the Navy to retake the Falklands, with the Air Force bombing the Argies into submission, and XVIII Corps jumping in to mop up, there would be no maritime component at all, the Atlantic Conveyor never sails, and so can never be sunk, because it's not there, which is why the Air Force/Army model would be the way to go, as sending the Navy to no purpose, simply puts the assets in harms way to no purpose, can't shoot an exocet missile, when there's nothing to shoot it at, and you already surrendered to the 82nd Airborne, six weeks ago.

The sheer scale and scope of American global power projection, has reached the point, where it has rendered naval power projection; moot, and in fact, more trouble than it's worth.

[Smitty-48]

I mean, if you want to get really efficient about it, you wouldn't even need the 82nd Airborne, a handful of B-52's and few Green Beret A-Teams, would be more than enough to force an Argentine capitulation, within a matter of hours.

The Argies are dug in around Stanley, the B-52's make one arc light pass on them, the white flags immediately fly from the pummeled survivors, the Green Berets walk over and accept their surrender, done and done.

[SuburbanFarmer]

I mean, if you want to get really efficient about it, you wouldn't even need the 82nd Airborne, a handful of B-52's and few Green Beret A-Teams, would be more than enough to force an Argentine capitulation, within a matter of hours.

Buh Bye Marines!

Pentagon < Triangle. I love it. This is what REAL conservatism looks like, you posers. Quit dicking around with the EPA, and make some real budget cuts.

[ssu]

We have something like 30K troops at the DM zone. NK has 1.2 Million plus another 7.5 Million in reserve... the US military may be some of the best out there, but at a minimum of 40/1 odds, I don't think we would do much agains those odds.

We'd put up a fight, but like the ocean, the troops would be overwhelmed in time. And not enough time to get reinforcements.

Remember, deploying 1,2 million and especially the 7,5 million reserves isn't something that you mobilize instantly. That simply cannot be done secretly. Yes, the artillery is there, ready to start the initial barrage and likely level Seoul, or at least some parts of it. That initial first strike can be deadly, but then the difficulties start to be on the side of North Korea. And how well can North Korea maneuver and use the men it has? Can it really drive through Korea like it did during the start of the Korean war? A big question.

If North Korea could hold it's own against South Korean and US land forces, the real problem is how it could defeat the USAF (and USN & USMC air power) in the long run. Because it's destined to lose air superiority, even if it gains it at any time. Achieve strategic surprise and being successfull in the initial strike doesn't mean that the war is lost. If South Korea is too dangerous to operate, then there's the airbases/airports in Japan.

North Korean artillery in excersize. Not very smart positioning in wartime, but great line up for propaganda purposes:

[SuburbanFarmer]

We have something like 30K troops at the DM zone. NK has 1.2 Million plus another 7.5 Million in reserve... the US military may be some of the best out there, but at a minimum of 40/1 odds, I don't think we would do much agains those odds.

We'd put up a fight, but like the ocean, the troops would be overwhelmed in time. And not enough time to get reinforcements.

Remember, deploying 1,2 million and especially the 7,5 million reserves isn't something that you mobilize instantly. That simply cannot be done secretly. Yes, the artillery is there, ready to start the initial barrage and likely level Seoul, or at least some parts of it. That initial first strike can be deadly, but then the difficulties start to be on the side of North Korea. And how well can North Korea maneuver and use the men it has? Can it really drive through Korea like it did during the start of the Korean war? A big question.

If North Korea could hold it's own against South Korean and US land forces, the real problem is how it could defeat the USAF (and USN & USMC air power) in the long run. Because it's destined to lose air superiority, even if it gains it at any time. Achieve strategic surprise and being successfull in the initial strike doesn't mean that the war is lost. If South Korea is too dangerous to operate, then there's the airbases/airports in Japan.

North Korean artillery in excersize. Not very smart positioning in wartime, but great line up for propaganda purposes:

That 'speedbump' just has to slow down any advance long enough for the USAF to make Pyongyang a smoking ruin. You can't even compare ground-based artillery to the firepower that would be on display from the air.

The only reason that any of this matters, of course, is China. If they're on the other side, then we'll have our hands full. However, we'd still probably have NK destroyed well before their troops cross the entire country to re-invade the South.

[Smitty-48]

In terms of the North Koreans attacking the ROK, the war basically lasts as long as it takes the Air Force to destroy the KPA artillery, there's a lot of it, so it couldn't be done overnight, but it wouldn't be long, before the Air Force was just bouncing the rubble, and the Korean People's Army; was turning into a big column of refugees trying to flee South to Chu-Hoi with hands in the air.

Invading and occupying North Korea, that would get tricky, because then you have to go dig the Regime Dead Enders out of their Mountain Retreat, but smashing the North Korean offensive capabilites would be a done deal, it's just a question of how much damage they could do to Seoul before you could shaq all the guns into silence.

[ssu]

I mean, if you want to get really efficient about it, you wouldn't even need the 82nd Airborne, a handful of B-52's and few Green Beret A-Teams, would be more than enough to force an Argentine capitulation, within a matter of hours.

The Argies are dug in around Stanley, the B-52's make one arc light pass on them, the white flags immediately fly from the pummeled survivors, the Green Berets walk over and accept their surrender, done and done.

Likely Argentina wouldn't have invaded a Place that is under control of an Superpower. But the British armed forces looked so inferior that it could be done. And it was a close call. Sinking of one aircraft carrier and likely the British Fleet would have had to sail back.

Yet still without naval involvement, it would be extremely difficult. Because that bombing run would have been quite a show (as it was now, actually) from Ascension Island. B-52s could be shot down by Argentinian aircraft, hence you likely would have to have F-15s escorting them from Ascension Island too. And Ascension Island is quite small. So a carrier would be far more usable.

Ascension Island RAF airbase. Not much room for many B-52s.


And you have to assume that the Argentinians would have simply given up and could have been destroyed by massive B-52 bombing. And not have fought at all.

[ssu]

In terms of the North Koreans attacking the ROK, the war basically lasts as long as it takes the Air Force to destroy the KPA artillery, there's a lot of it, so it couldn't be done overnight, but it wouldn't be long, before the Air Force was just bouncing the rubble, and the Korean People's Army; was turning into a big column of refugees trying to flee South to Chu-Hoi with hands in the air.

Invading and occupying North Korea, that would get tricky, because then you have to go dig the Regime Dead Enders out of their Mountain Retreat, but smashing the North Korean offensive capabilites would be a done deal, it's just a question of how much damage they could do to Seoul before you could shaq all the guns into silence.

You know, we always look at the "fight to the death" scenario. Yet is it the most likely scenario, if there is a conflict situation?

Yet many conflicts, like the Russo-Georgian war, the war in Ukraine and especially many of the wars in the Middle East have been limited. And that actually is something that could happen even in the Korean peninsula. A severely limited war. Confined in space and basically in time too. For example for some stupid pair of Islets. Both sides refrain from an all out war and play a simple tit-for-tat game. These kind of wars have been fought for instance between Pakistan and India and Israel with it's neighbours. It could happen in Korea too.

Sinking of the Cheonan. One example that the tit-for-tat with North Korea can be deadly:


Where the incident occurred: