Europe, Boring Until it's Not

[TheReal_ND]

It kind of feels like ISIS is gearing up for an offensive in Europe. It's obviously not going to gain territory for them, but a lot of people will likely die if it happens.

I thought it was happening during the Summer of Trucks.

[Alexander PhiAlipson]

It kind of feels like ISIS is gearing up for an offensive in Europe. It's obviously not going to gain territory for them, but a lot of people will likely die if it happens.

All those ships turning off their positioning systems and going to African ports should tell you quite enough about what is going down. The numbers of ISIS people already caught amongst the recent wave of migrants should also indicate to you something is afoot.

I am not saying it will necessarily happen. For all I know, intelligence services in Europe are waging a quiet war against ISIS inside Europe to keep it from happening (I don't doubt French intelligence are doing just that). But it looks inevitable now. Eventually it will happen.

As far as objectives.. I wouldn't compare ISIS' objectives with those of Viet Kong and NVA. ISIS is interested in fomenting mass violence in the western world. They believe if they can provoke us into an all-out invasion of the Levant, they will defeat us in an epic battle at a town called Dabuq, and the end times will come.

Personally, I'd like to give them that battle and put to rest their doomsday prophecy for good.

[Speaker to Animals]

It kind of feels like ISIS is gearing up for an offensive in Europe. It's obviously not going to gain territory for them, but a lot of people will likely die if it happens.

All those ships turning off their positioning systems and going to African ports should tell you quite enough about what is going down. The numbers of ISIS people already caught amongst the recent wave of migrants should also indicate to you something is afoot.

I am not saying it will necessarily happen. For all I know, intelligence services in Europe are waging a quiet war against ISIS inside Europe to keep it from happening (I don't doubt French intelligence are doing just that). But it looks inevitable now. Eventually it will happen.

As far as objectives.. I wouldn't compare ISIS' objectives with those of Viet Kong and NVA. ISIS is interested in fomenting mass violence in the western world. They believe if they can provoke us into an all-out invasion of the Levant, they will defeat us in an epic battle at a town called Dabuq, and the end times will come.

Personally, I'd like to give them that battle and put to rest their doomsday prophecy for good.

Need to keep our passports in order.

[Speaker to Animals]

The other thing that concerns me about those cargo ships is the potential to smuggle all that VX they captured in Syria.

[BjornP]

Not trying to defend Erdogan, or even Turkey here, but this reeks of propaganda and the European need to find some threat they're able to bash on. Russia has proven themselves a bit too scary and capable, so Turkey seems like a fitting target. But they're really not. We're going to regret antagonizing the Turks, no matter how fucked up their path is looking at the moment.

Yup. I think, especially in regards to that Turkish referendum that would give Erdogan more power, the images and accompanying Turkish narratives to go along with them of the Netherlands barring Turkish ministers from their country because they don't like this proposed Turkish law, is precisely the sort of ammo someone like Erdogan would want.

And yet, despite the best (almost absurdly levels of autocratic: see the BBC article) efforts of the Turkish government to promote a "yes", the polls are apparantly not conclusively either for or against:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39064657

[Otern]

Yup. I think, especially in regards to that Turkish referendum that would give Erdogan more power, the images and accompanying Turkish narratives to go along with them of the Netherlands barring Turkish ministers from their country because they don't like this proposed Turkish law, is precisely the sort of ammo someone like Erdogan would want.

And yet, despite the best (almost absurdly levels of autocratic: see the BBC article) efforts of the Turkish government to promote a "yes", the polls are apparantly not conclusively either for or against:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39064657

I think this has a lot to do with the EU not wanting to follow through on their agreement with Turkey over the refugees. Now, Turkey has pretty much stopped the worst of the influx over their borders into Bulgaria and Greece. But part of their agreement was the Turks getting one of those four freedoms, the free movement of people across Europe.

If they can somehow get the people in Europe on board with the Turks as the new enemies, it will be far simpler to pull out of that agreement, and then hope for the refugee crisis to sort of solve itself before the Turks are able to open the floodgates again.

This is going to bite us in the ass in the long run though. Turkey has for a long time been a pretty great partner for Europe, both economically and in defense. And most of their immigrants are pretty fucking great too. Secular people with a lutheran work ethic. They're viewed almost as positive as the Poles around here. But recent acts by the EU and different European governments show the Turkish people they're never going to truly be a part of Europe. EU members will never let them join the EU, and it's starting to dawn on them. So far, they've actually been playing nice with Europe, in the hope of one day joining the EU. But this seems more distant as the days go by.

They'll stop cooperating on certain important issues for the EU. The EU will campaign for Turkey's removal from NATO. Turkey will look east for new friends. At worst they'll look into certain Islamic alliances. At best, they'll look to Russia. All bad for Europe.

[3knuckleshuffle]

Weird. I had seen people saying it's a law but this seems to imply there isn't one.

This is nothing but Dutch campaigning, as they don't want to look soft on muslims and lose too many votes to Wilders.

Seems like this really backfired then. Can't imagine muslims rioting in the streets two days before elections does anything but add votes for Wilders.

[Otern]

Seems like this really backfired then. Can't imagine muslims rioting in the streets two days before elections does anything but add votes for Wilders.

Noone's ever accused the European neocons and neolibs of having good foresight.

[TheReal_ND]

[Otern]

Close the ones with radical imams, and other ones that somehow support terrorism, but ALL? Nah. Believe it or not, there are muslims that are great people.

It's a shame the Netherlands lost Pim Fortuyn. He seemed like an anti immigration politician that still valued freedom.

Still think it's necessary that Wilders gets a lot of votes though. Don't like him, but the guy is necessary, Europe needs a shift in its border and immigration policy. And the EU needs to go.

Thankfully, when there's an election in Norway this autumn, there's plenty of anti-EU parties to choose from, not just one.