Government has divorced itself from responsibility to protect Citizens

[brewster]

I see brewster is still defending his citation. The citation that points out it's full of shit in the body of it own text.
Hahahah, wow.
Leftists.

My citation was showing it has been done, not as much endorsing that conclusion. My point is a state with 9m people has done this, you don't have to wonder about the results of such an experiment.

[Speaker to Animals]

You guys are a riot.
"Lets test the idea of getting rid of bail"
"2 years of data on just that from NJ is inapplicable because we don't like NJ"

The data that matters is the rate at which misdeamenor defendants skip trial with and without bail. If the rate does not increase after bail is restricted to felony accused, then you win your case.

I want bail abolished for misdeamenor crimes on principle, and I really do not give s shit about people skipping trial. If somebody skips trial, issue a warrant and lock them in jail until their trial is over, then charge them for failure to appear.

But if your argument rests on effectiveness of bail itself, then all you have to do is look at the appropriate stat. General crime rates are irrelevant.

[jediuser598]

Taking action to revamp California’s bail system, Governor Edmund G. Brown Jr. today signed Senate Bill 10, the California Money Bail Reform Act, which preserves the rights of the accused, while prioritizing public safety.

The new law – which will take effect on October 1, 2019 – establishes a new system for determining a defendant’s custody status while they await trial based on an assessment of risk to public safety and probability of missing a court date rather than their ability to pay cash bail.

“Today, California reforms its bail system so that rich and poor alike are treated fairly,” said Governor Brown.

https://www.gov.ca.gov/2018/08/28/gover ... ic-safety/

[brewster]

Here's another article. Even if you ignore any causality to lower crime, the world didn't end unless you were a bondsman, who lobbied loudly and expensively against the bill. Basically bail was eliminated for nonviolent crimes, but judges given discretion in both directions, including denying bail to the wealthy.

Https://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/20 ... e_num.html

State Police statistics show that compared to 2016 data (January to September), homicides are down 32 percent in the same period for 2018. Rape (down 13), robbery (down 37), assault (down 18) and burglary (down 30) have also plunged. Overall, violent crime is down more than 30 percent.

Not exactly Armageddon.

That doesn't mean that the new bail system is directly responsible for crime reduction, but for it to happen at the same time courts have all but stopped setting cash bail - cutting our pretrial jail population drastically -- speaks to the overarching success of reform.

Remember, we got here because New Jerseyans said it was time to stop criminalizing poverty. In 2014, voters approved an amendment that gave judges the power to detain anyone without bail if they pose a threat or flight risk; before the amendment, almost everyone with money could be released on bail. Then the Legislature passed a bill, signed by Gov. Christie, to abolish cash bail for most nonviolent defendants and create a system that would monitor them.

It has worked brilliantly, because judges still can use their discretion to overrule a risk assessment based on a computer algorithm. The drug kingpins, in other words, can't buy their freedom. The rest, meanwhile, can get on with their lives without regard to the size of their wallets.

Comparisons are hard to come by, but in this ranking, NJ is 4th in public safety behind 3 tiny, very white, rural states. ME, VT & NH. It's neighbors PA and NY are #10 & 13.
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states ... orrections

[Speaker to Animals]

If you are going to play the statistics game, the only relevant statistic is the change in the rate at which people fail to appear.

Personally, I think that is a loser argument, even if eliminating bail results in no increases in failures to appear.

For misdemeanor crimes, there is no fucking justification for bail. We are not talking about threats to society here. Also, the alleged need to preempt some people from skipping out on their hearings for minor crimes does not in any universe outweigh the costs of destroying innocent people's lives and giving prosecutors a tool to abuse the criminal justice system to coerce innocent people to plead guilty.

If we are talking felonies and violent criminals.. even there.. what exactly does bail solve? If a guy facing twenty years in prison decides to opt out of that shit, what exactly is his losing twenty grand or whatever going to do to stop him? And if he is a threat to society, how exactly does posting bail prevent him from harming anybody else?

My 2c: if the judge and prosecutor truly believe a defendant is a flight risk, then put an ankle monitor on the person.

[nmoore63]

https://reason.com/blog/2018/12/19/repo ... cant-pay-b

[Zlaxer]

https://reason.com/blog/2018/12/19/repo ... cant-pay-b

Think I'll open up a prison if this law thing doesn't pan out....

[DBTrek]

https://reason.com/blog/2018/12/19/repo ... cant-pay-b

Well, it certainly looks like there's room for reform:

Since the 1990s, the number of people who have been ordered to pay bail (or some other financial obligation) in order to be freed has risen from 53 percent to 72 percent. What's more, pretrial detentions have increased even as total arrests have gone down. Over the same period, both bail amounts and the amount of time spent in jail as a result of being unable to pay bail have increased. The median amount demanded for bail for drug and public order offenses increased by 33 and 48 percent, respectively.

But reform is considerably different than abolishing a system. I also question some of the conclusions the researchers made, like the people who can't even scrape 10% of their bail together are costing America $8,590 per prisoner, per year due to lost work. We're going to pretend these people have what . . . careers? We have a bunch of auto mechanics and McDonald's managers in jail who can't post bail, and it's hurting America because they aren't at their jobs? C'mon man.

Here's a list of average bail amounts per crime. People can pail a bail bondsmen 10% of this amount and go skipping out of jail the same day:
https://bailbondsnetwork.com/bail-amoun ... uch.html#4

For crimes like battery, burglary, assault, hit and run, and indecent exposure you're looking at $1000-$5000 to a bondsman. For DUI with suspended license you're looking at $250.

Can improvements be made? Yes. The judicial system and prison industry are ripe for reform. I just don't know that bail rates up there with things like the prosecutorial power of plea bargaining, for-profit prisons, or civil forfeiture. Bail seems like a pretty small problem compared to those.

[nmoore63]

https://reason.com/archives/2018/12/18/ ... olice-jail

[C-Mag]

BHO can really pick em

A darling of the RFK foundation’s bailout effort was set to miss out on meeting former President Obama at its Manhattan gala Wednesday night — because he was busted during a traffic stop hours earlier.

Bail-reform poster child ­Pedro Hernandez, 19, was stopped while driving a BMW in The Bronx at about noon, cops said.

A computer check revealed the car’s plates were stolen and Hernandez’s driver’s license was suspended. He was charged with aggravated unlicensed operation of a motor vehicle and related charges, a law-enforcement source said.

It was at least the teen’s 13th arrest — and the third time he had been stopped for allegedly driving without a license in the past two years.
https://nypost.com/2018/12/12/bail-refo ... ith-obama/