Haven't been around for a while...

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adwinistrator
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Re: Haven't been around for a while...

Post by adwinistrator » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:26 am

Martin Hash wrote:Why do you have to use a sentence to describe peer-pressure indoctrination? What word do you want to use?
How about peer pressure. Social conformity.

For once, Wikipedia actually summarizes what I'm trying to get at:
Indoctrination is closely linked to socialization; however, in common discourse, indoctrination is often associated with negative connotations, while socialization functions as a generic descriptor conveying no specific value or connotation (some choosing to hear socialization as an inherently positive and necessary contribution to social order, others choosing to hear socialization as primarily an instrument of social oppression).
StCapps wrote:I use the dictionary definition, that definition is too broad for you, you want it to be more restricted. Indoctrination has plenty of meaning in a broader context as well as in a narrower context, just because you can't see the meaning in the broader context is not my problem. Indoctrination is not an inherently negative term.
I don't disagree with the dictionary, and will read your usage of that term with a more broad context. :)

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StCapps
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Re: Haven't been around for a while...

Post by StCapps » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:30 am

adwinistrator wrote:I don't disagree with the dictionary, and will read your usage of that term with a more broad context. :)
Indoctrination - The process of teaching a person or group to accept a set of beliefs uncritically.

Looks like you disagree with it being indoctrination if the person has good intentions for indoctrinating someone or they are ignorant that they are engaging in it, the definition differs from your interpretation.
*yip*

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C-Mag
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Re: Haven't been around for a while...

Post by C-Mag » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:32 am

ooky wrote:
Hi Carlus. I'll have to think about this, it could take some time to get enough free time together to write an 5-10 point well spoken argument against Trump and Trumpism. I certainly wrote many such posts before the election, and I have a lot more to say now. But this first message is just letting you guys know I'm still here, based on what I read yesterday I don't think like you all, a LOT of us don't think like you all, and what it's like on my side.

Regarding the tax returns, we know he's beholden to and in debt with and tied to powerful actors in all sorts of countries important to our foreign diplomacy. But we know almost nothing about the particulars. I agree with the Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington that he is ripe for unprecedented conflicts of interest and unconstitutional acceptance of payment for personal gain from foreign leaders, even if he had the best of intentions, which based on his and his family's own comments I don't believe he does. If he had fully divested from his business, which yes, would have cost him a TON of money, then the returns would not be as important. That would have also illuminated some character-based traits about understanding how this job is a public service job that is vastly more important than optimization of his own personal finances. But he set it up this way, and he wants to have his cake and eat it too, all while telling all of us to just trust him. He's given us absolutely no reason to trust him, and a lot of reason to see him as a chronically ethically compromised liar.
Well, let's make our first point of discussion Tax Returns and Foreign Influence in regards to what we know Trump has done and what standard practice for politicians. Here's the quick points I would make on that.
1. Everyone has a right to privacy on Tax Returns, even the POTUS.
a. I'm OK with changing that Right to Privacy for Presidents. We can have a public vetting process, lay out the entire Federal Secuirty background check. Probably need a Constitutional Amendment.
2. Trump has laid down some pretty tough Lobbying prohibitions
a. No lobbying their own agency for five years after leaving, and would not lobby any government appointee for two years.
b. Trump's order also requires his officials to agree to a lifetime ban on working on behalf of foreign governments or foreign political parties.
3. Currently we have candidates getting all kinds of foreign money or setting up shell organizations to launder the money. See Clinton Foundation. There is very strong circumstantial evidence at minimum that if you contributed to the Clinton Foundation you got an Arms Deal. McCain has one of these Bullshit Foundations too.
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skankhunt42
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Re: Haven't been around for a while...

Post by skankhunt42 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:20 pm

Speaker to Animals wrote:It's a war, ooky, and you guys started it. Remember over the past eight years when people kept telling you guys that all this tyrannical shit was going to come back against you when the other side comes to power? None of you gave a shit then. Now it's come back to haunt you. You guys made it quite clear that this is a war, and I hope my side wins it.
I hate that mindset, just fucking hate it. America is a big place, at some point, if we don't start having actual compromise we will lose our view from the top.
"just realize that our Welfare states are also propped up by your Warfare. You're not actually defending us from threats, but you are propping us up by fabricating threats to maintain the Perpetual War." - Smitty

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Speaker to Animals
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Re: Haven't been around for a while...

Post by Speaker to Animals » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:23 pm

skankhunt42 wrote:
Speaker to Animals wrote:It's a war, ooky, and you guys started it. Remember over the past eight years when people kept telling you guys that all this tyrannical shit was going to come back against you when the other side comes to power? None of you gave a shit then. Now it's come back to haunt you. You guys made it quite clear that this is a war, and I hope my side wins it.
I hate that mindset, just fucking hate it. America is a big place, at some point, if we don't start having actual compromise we will lose our view from the top.

How? We tried it for a long time. It doesn't seem that compromise is possible.

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C-Mag
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Re: Haven't been around for a while...

Post by C-Mag » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:23 pm

skankhunt42 wrote:
Speaker to Animals wrote:It's a war, ooky, and you guys started it. Remember over the past eight years when people kept telling you guys that all this tyrannical shit was going to come back against you when the other side comes to power? None of you gave a shit then. Now it's come back to haunt you. You guys made it quite clear that this is a war, and I hope my side wins it.
I hate that mindset, just fucking hate it. America is a big place, at some point, if we don't start having actual compromise we will lose our view from the top.
I agree, how about this for a compromise. Let's try giving a newly elected POTUS a chance, maybe not organizing violence and protests before he's even done anything.
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skankhunt42
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Re: Haven't been around for a while...

Post by skankhunt42 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:32 pm

C-Mag wrote:
skankhunt42 wrote:
Speaker to Animals wrote:It's a war, ooky, and you guys started it. Remember over the past eight years when people kept telling you guys that all this tyrannical shit was going to come back against you when the other side comes to power? None of you gave a shit then. Now it's come back to haunt you. You guys made it quite clear that this is a war, and I hope my side wins it.
I hate that mindset, just fucking hate it. America is a big place, at some point, if we don't start having actual compromise we will lose our view from the top.
I agree, how about this for a compromise. Let's try giving a newly elected POTUS a chance, maybe not organizing violence and protests before he's even done anything.
Yea, I'm for this, the term he used was "war". At some point both sides are going to have to come to compromises. I'm not saying right now this instant, but eventually one side or both is going to have to extend an olive branch. This place won't survive if every 4-8 years this divide keeps escalating. What will we look like 30, 60, 100 years from now?
"just realize that our Welfare states are also propped up by your Warfare. You're not actually defending us from threats, but you are propping us up by fabricating threats to maintain the Perpetual War." - Smitty

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Speaker to Animals
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Re: Haven't been around for a while...

Post by Speaker to Animals » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:34 pm

Negative. No compromise. The democratic party must be destroyed as a national force. Not going back to persecution.

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Martin Hash
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Re: Haven't been around for a while...

Post by Martin Hash » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:39 pm

During The Collapse, the extremes on both sides will rebell & subsequently be purged, then compromise.
Shamedia, Shamdemic, Shamucation, Shamlection, Shamconomy & Shamate Change

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C-Mag
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Re: Haven't been around for a while...

Post by C-Mag » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:40 pm

skankhunt42 wrote:
C-Mag wrote:
skankhunt42 wrote:
I hate that mindset, just fucking hate it. America is a big place, at some point, if we don't start having actual compromise we will lose our view from the top.
I agree, how about this for a compromise. Let's try giving a newly elected POTUS a chance, maybe not organizing violence and protests before he's even done anything.
Yea, I'm for this, the term he used was "war". At some point both sides are going to have to come to compromises. I'm not saying right now this instant, but eventually one side or both is going to have to extend an olive branch. This place won't survive if every 4-8 years this divide keeps escalating. What will we look like 30, 60, 100 years from now?
It is definitely an Ideological War, and the Left are the Extremists.

edit- written while Hash was posting, was not specifically referring to his post.
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