What is the Chance of an Electoral College Revolt?

[Ex-California]

Over half the population of the US is in the south. You wouldn't want a popular vote to be the deciding factor in US politics.

Why not? Whatever they voted would be the will of the people.

If you're going pure popular vote, having 51% of the vote come from densely populated urban bubbles isn't the Will of the People, and will increase the hostility already felt toward the urban voters by the rural voters. From what I can tell, Urbanites have a "I know better than you," attitude, while the hayseeds take a "Leave me and mine alone," approach.

Unless you think that urban people are less than a full citizen, it is absolutely the will of the people.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

Unless you think that urban people are less than a full citizen, it is absolutely the will of the people.

Gotta say, I really respect your position on this one Bennett. Not to be shitty, but most of the Trump supporters who have been proclaiming the wisdom of the electoral college right now would be losing their godamn minds if the situation was reversed.

And not without reason... in a sense. If Clinton had won the electoral but not the popular, it would be viewed of further evidence of corruption and rigging, which is a harder claim to make against Trump, but the fact remains, vote per person is absolutely more democratic.

[skankhunt42]

Unless you think that urban people are less than a full citizen, it is absolutely the will of the people.

Gotta say, I really respect your position on this one Bennett. Not to be shitty, but most of the Trump supporters who have been proclaiming the wisdom of the electoral college right now would be losing their godamn minds if the situation was reversed.

And not without reason... in a sense. If Clinton had won the electoral but not the popular, it would be viewed of further evidence of corruption and rigging, which is a harder claim to make against Trump, but the fact remains, vote per person is absolutely more democratic.

But Direct Democracy is NOT what the framers intended for a reason.

James Madison worried about what he called “factions,” which he defined as groups of citizens who have a common interest in some proposal that would either violate the rights of other citizens or would harm the nation as a whole. Madison’s fear – which Alexis de Tocqueville later dubbed “the tyranny of the majority” – was that a faction could grow to encompass more than 50 percent of the population, at which point it could “sacrifice to its ruling passion or interest both the public good and the rights of other citizens.” Madison has a solution for tyranny of the majority: “A republic, by which I mean a government in which the scheme of representation takes place, opens a different prospect, and promises the cure for which we are seeking.”

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

But Direct Democracy is NOT what the framers intended for a reason.

No doubt... they also didn't want us electing senators and used democracy as a synonym for anarchy from time to time.

The framers were, what is the word, based... but they weren't infallible, and they knew they weren't, which is why they constructed a constitution that could be amended.

[skankhunt42]

But Direct Democracy is NOT what the framers intended for a reason.

No doubt... they also didn't want us electing senators and used democracy as a synonym for anarchy from time to time.

The framers were, what is the word, based... but they weren't infallible, and they knew they weren't, which is why they constructed a constitution that could be amended.

I don't disagree. I guess the bottom line is right now the nation is divided but the most important and overlooked thing that is happening right now in America post election is that we are still "The United States of America". We are still standing. Hizzah!

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

USA!

I notice CA babyish threats of secession lasted about 48 hours.

[jbird4049]

My street is pretty quiet but then again my sister hasn't spoken but 3 words to me since 11/9. I guess my MAGA hat didn't go over too well.

Mom, and I, were having a seriously intense "discussion" about the election at the retirement home dining room during Thanksgiving, when some of the staff asked if we wanted more coffee, and oh, is everything okay?

We're talking just fine now, but that was embarrassing. All these little, old, quiet people with their families. Then there's us. Oh well. Where Mom is is Republican Country, and she is was Clinton, and l'm seriously to the left of Saunders.

Please elaborate. I have intrigue.

Nothing much more to tell. Just two liberal political junkie hotheads from ultra liberal Bay Area being very heated during a thanksgiving dinner amongst a bunch of very quiet retirees with their families. In a area that's among the 1/3 of California that is quite red. And the staff is always looking out for heart attacks and other nastiness often caused by such arguing. The place is occupied by 70-100+ year old people

[jbird4049]

But Direct Democracy is NOT what the framers intended for a reason.

No doubt... they also didn't want us electing senators and used democracy as a synonym for anarchy from time to time.

The framers were, what is the word, based... but they weren't infallible, and they knew they weren't, which is why they constructed a constitution that could be amended.

I don't disagree. I guess the bottom line is right now the nation is divided but the most important and overlooked thing that is happening right now in America post election is that we are still "The United States of America". We are still standing. Hizzah!

It is much worse than the Constitution possibly needing amending; It is the lack of not only sense of any kind, and an active cultivation of same by most of the influential leadership of this Nation because they think it benefits them. It does, but only in the short while. After that, things start to breakup, fall apart, collapse.

It reminds of the current economic short termism that has, and is still killing, many businesses. You know, the original founders leave, then the people they trained leave, and slowly the MBA bastards take over. The leadership obsesses over squeezing evermore profit from each new quarter, not on how to actually run a successful company for the long run. And as the old timers slowly retire, or are fired, from all levels from the upper management all way down to the old, experience, better paid sales clerks, along with evermore "excess" workers, positions, and equipment to be replaced, if at all, with cheaper, less functional, workers, and equipment. It becomes a hollow company that on paper looks good because it is making more profit each quarter, but really it is eating itself dead. It is only waiting for the right feather to kill it.

That is a mirror to our country. Unlike the past, where many sought greater wealth, power, and prestige by building, or creating something, the powerful folks fight to acquire by tearing up not only the law, but also the customs, traditions, expectations of all of our institutions, be they business, governmental, social, educational, to acquire that power.

No society, no matter how it is constructed, socially, religiously, economically, or governmentally, can last under such "leadership."

Further, in the company in which I worked at, the employees including the management, top to bottom, believed in it. People devoted decades, lifetimes to its success. There was even a company museum, maybe still is. It is not something I would have done, but it was a success. Something to be proud of. Then came the vermin who used that loyalty to extract evermore profit. Thanks for the hard work, get lost. Pension? What's that loser? The lying upper corporate management always got theirs, but everyone else was disposable.

I think I'm bitter. The point though, is that our county, America, the United States, is being run more like that company where hard work, loyalty is used by the powerful, and when you have nothing left to give, you are deemed useless, then disposed of while being mocked. It does not matter what color you are, what you believe, where you live, what party you belong to, for if you do not have real wealth, you are just in live to be disposed of.

That is why I often get angry when I hear talk about how liberals, or conservatives are, or about the parties, or even issues such as abortion, or gun control. All important issues, yes, but it is all a lie. Issues are used nowadays to divide, control, impoverish, and then dispose of us all.

[Two Man]

I notice CA babyish threats of secession lasted about 48 hours.

It ain't over yet. A petition was started to get the official process off and running. There is also a movement to split the state into 2 or more states with "Jefferson" the name most cited if there were to be two.

[Xenophon]

Why not? Whatever they voted would be the will of the people.

If you're going pure popular vote, having 51% of the vote come from densely populated urban bubbles isn't the Will of the People, and will increase the hostility already felt toward the urban voters by the rural voters. From what I can tell, Urbanites have a "I know better than you," attitude, while the hayseeds take a "Leave me and mine alone," approach.

Unless you think that urban people are less than a full citizen, it is absolutely the will of the people.

Are you truly complaining about how the elector votes per state are calculated? Go and cry to Montana about electoral votes, I'm sure they sympathize with you poor Californians.

How anyone can say that direct democracy is preferable to proportional representation is beyond me.