How's that Obamacare Repeal Working Out For You?

[Okeefenokee]

That literally takes life down to a luck-based lottery.

I don't believe in luck and I don't play the lottery. I spent the better part of the last decade paying to rebuild my house after the insurance company flaked when it burned down. I didn't go shake down my neighbors for cash to pay for it, simply because it wasn't fair that they had houses and I didn't.

[K@th]

That literally takes life down to a luck-based lottery.

I don't believe in luck and I don't play the lottery. I spent the better part of the last decade paying to rebuild my house after the insurance company flaked when it burned down. I didn't go shake down my neighbors for cash to pay for it, simply because it wasn't fair that they had houses and I didn't.

You didn't answer any of my questions. It's hard to debate when one person won't even engage honestly. What is your solution?

[Okeefenokee]

Let's break up.

End suffrage.

While women have shown themselves mostly unable to govern or make survivable political decisions, lots of men are little better now.

We have to drastically limit the vote and limiting it based merely upon gender or property ownership will be insufficient to turn this around.

Furthermore, the city states (and that's what they are becoming) need to be let loose as their own entities.

This would allow us to redraw the internal borders of the rest of our nation along cultural boundaries. Let the distinct cultural regions govern themselves internally as they see fit. Let the city states go. The federal government should be limited to war and foreign policy. The only enfranchised people in that should be veterans.

With respect to the cities.. it's becoming apparent that the only way these large urban areas have ever survived is by subjugating the surrounding countrysides. Let them go. I suspect most of them, if left on their own, would die off naturally. A few of them would manage it and become something like Singapore.

Let the cities be the multicultural marxist paradise. Keep it quarantined. If people want to live like that, they have a window of opportunity to emigrate from the rest of America. No coming back, though..

Doesn't the word suffrage mean voting in general? I thought you had to tack on, "women's," to make it a gendered term.

[The Conservative]

Beyond that, I think that RomneyCare actually worked well, it wasn't perfect and things were changed on the fly to perfect them, but once a mistake or an issue was found out, it was corrected. ObamaCare is so massive that you change one thing on it, everything else nearly collapses around it.

Also, lets be honest here. Health Care is not the issue here, health insurance is.

I asked what was different besides size & scope, and your answer amounts to the difference is size & scope.

MA has 7 million people. You can't compare that to caring for 300 million people.

That's the problem, They attempted to take what works for 7 million people and make it work for 100 million +

You can't do that... especially when their idea of copying is taking only the parts they like, and not the entire thing. RomneyCare would have been great nation wide if they allowed each state to make it work for their state instead of trying to make it work nationally.

[Okeefenokee]

That literally takes life down to a luck-based lottery.

I don't believe in luck and I don't play the lottery. I spent the better part of the last decade paying to rebuild my house after the insurance company flaked when it burned down. I didn't go shake down my neighbors for cash to pay for it, simply because it wasn't fair that they had houses and I didn't.

You didn't answer any of my questions. It's hard to debate when one person won't even engage honestly. What is your solution?

Every one of your questions was asking me if I would feel comfortable or comfy because someone else couldn't afford their healthcare or had to watch their loved ones dying.

Do I really need to point out how bankrupt your position must be that all you can say is, "you just want to see people dead in the streets." This thread is full of logical arguments against your feels based position, and you've got nothing to respond with other than more feels.

I've already told you my solution to healthcare. It is the same as my solution to housing. Same as clothing. Same as food. Same as transportation.

I get up in the morning, and I go to work. The biggest snag in the solution is the premiums that are through the roof ever since you feelsies decided to mandate healthcare for all, as though you couldn't know what that would bring.

[K@th]

Do I really need to point out how bankrupt your position must be that all you can say is, "you just want to see people dead in the streets." This thread is full of logical arguments against your feels based position, and you've got nothing to respond with other than more feels.

I don't think you read my post. There were no "feelz" in there. I was asking some honest questions. I make no assumptions that you want poor people dying in the streets from pneumonia.

It's been quite some time since you've felt the need to engage with me honestly, so I think it's best we just stop talking.

HAGD.

[Dand]

I have to make money for everything. I have to pay for the house, and the clothes, and the food, and the cars. I don't put healthcare or medication in a different category. It's all just shit you need to live, and when the time comes that you need it, you have to pay for it.

That literally takes life down to a luck-based lottery.

A poor person can get by with minimal housing, can only consume a certain amount of food, only needs so much clothing.... but, one person may need $400K in medical care and another may never need any. It's the only commodity where the needs (not wants) are so vastly different.

I get you don't want to pay for your neighbor's cancer treatment and you don't want anyone to pay for yours. Should you get to a place where you have a loved one who needs every available resource you have, plus tens of thousands more beyond that, will you take comfort that you never had to give a penny so someone else could get that care?

Realistically, how do you see that playing out? Are you comfy that people will literally have to sit and watch as their loved ones die in agony because they couldn't afford chemo or drugs?

This is a very tough issue, and, at the risk of repeating myself, the answer isn't black & white.

Also, to everyone, please quit conflating health insurance with health care. Americans don't need health insurance; they need health care. Insurers need us to need insurance.

That said, I don't trust the government to fix this. Everything they touch turns to poop. There's got to be some sort of solution. I don't trust the free market on this - an epi pen that went from a few dollars to a few thousand dollars overnight is proof that the free market will not help control health care costs.

So, what's the answer?

I think the answer is that life is not fair and we're all going to die. I don't care about someone's arguments on this topic if they don't accept those two basic truths.

[Fife]

Republican socialism is bad socialism. People will die!!

[SuburbanFarmer]

I have to make money for everything. I have to pay for the house, and the clothes, and the food, and the cars. I don't put healthcare or medication in a different category. It's all just shit you need to live, and when the time comes that you need it, you have to pay for it.

That literally takes life down to a luck-based lottery.

A poor person can get by with minimal housing, can only consume a certain amount of food, only needs so much clothing.... but, one person may need $400K in medical care and another may never need any. It's the only commodity where the needs (not wants) are so vastly different.

I get you don't want to pay for your neighbor's cancer treatment and you don't want anyone to pay for yours. Should you get to a place where you have a loved one who needs every available resource you have, plus tens of thousands more beyond that, will you take comfort that you never had to give a penny so someone else could get that care?

Realistically, how do you see that playing out? Are you comfy that people will literally have to sit and watch as their loved ones die in agony because they couldn't afford chemo or drugs?

This is a very tough issue, and, at the risk of repeating myself, the answer isn't black & white.

Also, to everyone, please quit conflating health insurance with health care. Americans don't need health insurance; they need health care. Insurers need us to need insurance.

That said, I don't trust the government to fix this. Everything they touch turns to poop. There's got to be some sort of solution. I don't trust the free market on this - an epi pen that went from a few dollars to a few thousand dollars overnight is proof that the free market will not help control health care costs.

So, what's the answer?

I think the answer is that life is not fair and we're all going to die. I don't care about someone's arguments on this topic if they don't accept those two basic truths.

I don't think that's a useful basis for societal engineering... "Life's not fair, and it will never be, so eat shit".
Just spitballing here...

[K@th]

I think the answer is that life is not fair and we're all going to die. I don't care about someone's arguments on this topic if they don't accept those two basic truths.

I accept those basic truths. Now what? Can you be specific?

A waitress without health care is clearly suffering from some sort of cold. Without a doctor, she plugs along. Without help, this develops into pneumonia and the cost to fix it is way higher than it was six days ago. Still, she can't afford it. So, now she just dies because she couldn't afford some penicillin and cough syrup?

Ok, I accept she died. Too bad, so sad. That's cool. In the meantime, she got 20 restaurant customers sick because she couldn't afford to stay home, even though she was dying (and didn't really know it.) Four of the people who got sick also have no insurance and are on their way to making even more people sick. Now it cascades ... like when the kids go back to school in August but without any care.

I'm trying to figure out how a healthy populace isn't in our best interest. If enough people truly lack access to basic health care, we could be talking about epidemics.

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A three-year old breaks her arm. Mom and dad and family can't afford a cast. Three year old grows up with a permanent disfigurement?

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Now, these may be appeals to the heart, but I maintain they are not. They are real life examples of how shit goes down if a large percentage of the population can't access any health care.

Keep in mind, in this "pay or no service," health care society, we're going to have to take away the mandate that ERs must treat everyone, because a big part of the reasons that major health care is so expensive is because poor people were using the ER as their primary care, so that wasn't working.

So, whatcha got? What happens when dad has a heart attack but doesn't have his proof of insurance on him?