Europe, Boring Until it's Not

[TheReal_ND]

It was my understanding that for a long time Russia regarded itself as European and attempted to emulate European culture as close as they could in higher society.

Basically Russia has had an ambivalent stance towards the West. It never has made up it's mind about it.

First there are the "Slavophiles", now who are in control, those that see everything good coming from Mother Russia, it's roots in Rus and Byzantium and everything awfull and decadent coming from the West. Then there are the Westernizers, the Zapadniks. Although Zapadniks refer to certain intellectuals who were active in the middle of the 19th Century, the "Westernizing" and it's opposite, "Russification" of Russia has gone on for a long time. Let's not forget that one of most important persons in Russian history, Peter the Great, was definately a westernizer.

A caricature depicting Peter the Great cutting the beards off the Russian aristocracy...and putting them to wear Western clothes:


I would consider Russia European ...because it definately isn't an Asian culture. Some Tsaikowski's music or Russian literature classic are definately not example of Asian culture. West European Russia isn't, but East European it is. The term eurasian is a quite late comer of a term used usually after the post-Soviet times. Let's remember that earlier Russia was thought of as part of the West.

When I think of classical Russia I think of Dostoevsky, Tolstoy and the later Monarchs.

I could see how they value a more Russocentric identity these days though.

[Speaker to Animals]

Russia goes back and forth. They used to be participating members of the Mongolian empire because we abandoned them to the Mongols. Then the Germans tried to invade them in the 1200s because they wouldn't recognize the Pope. Then the French fucked with them. Then the Germans came again. They always held a big grudge for these things.

A better way to look at Russia is in quasi-religious terms. They see themselves as the East in terms of the old East-West split in Christianity. That's probably never going to change.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Peter the Great tried like hell to westernize Russia, and largely succeeded. He moved the capital to St Petersburg, and revolutionized the industry and military. However, the fact that he even had to attempt it, says a lot about how different they've always been.

And in religious terms, the eastern church is pretty scarce outside of their territory - largely preserved by the Russians and some much smaller states.

If the term Middle Eastern weren't already taken, I think it would describe their culture pretty well. They're a sort of bastardized half-way point between the West and East - and not really of either one.

Same could be said of the Middle East as we know it - very much a mix of African and Indian cultures, but lacking any sort of real home outside the immediate region. The dead remnants of the Persian empire.

As for the Turks, they are Persian - through and through. Never would we have compared Persia to European culture, until this ridiculous alliance went a step too Far East.

[Montegriffo]

Eurovision song contest winners, what more proof do you need?

[SuburbanFarmer]

Eurovision song contest winners, what more proof do you need?

1 - that's not even music. Eurovision is absolute balls-out insanity.

2 - How's their World Cup team?

[Montegriffo]

3. Australia is also in the Eurovision contest these days.

[TheOneX]

It constitutes part of this European geography quiz.
http://online.seterra.com/en/vgp/3007

Geographically part of Turkey is in Europe, just like part of Egypt is in Asia. The Middle-East is not a geographical region, it is a cultural and ethnic region.

...which is located on the Asian continent. And has a completely distinct culture from Europe.

Would you consider Egypt to be an Asian or African country?

In the most strict of senses Egypt is both an African and an Asian country. Culturally it is Middle-Eastern. Whether or not you include Turkey as Europe all depend on how you are defining Europe, and how strict you are. In a cultural sense Turkey is not European. Geographically it is partially European, but mostly not European. Whereas Turkey the majority of the land matches where you would expect the dominant culture to be from, Russia is the opposite. The dominant culture is in the smaller land mass. Culturally Russia is European, but the majority of its landmass is in Asia.

[Otern]

Hmmm, so let me get this straight. Turkey tries to do campaigning in the Netherlands, but is blocked because of reasons? Turkey has some laws regarding campaigning in other countries, but the Netherlands do not, so by blocking this campaigning, they're effectively enforcing Turkish laws on Dutch soil.

And then, a few weeks ago, a ship from the Netherlands, with the permission from Netherlands' authorities, was blocked from doing abortions in Guatemala, because it's against Guatemalan laws.

Sooo, apparently the Dutch laws should be followed abroad, but the Turkish laws should be followed in the Netherlands?

[TheReal_ND]

It's my understanding it's illegal according to Dutch law. Where do you see it's not?

[Otern]

It's my understanding it's illegal according to Dutch law. Where do you see it's not?

I may be wrong here, but I can't seem to find any specific Dutch law forbidding campaigning in their country. The Turks got one, but noone really follows it there.