THE ERA OF TRUMP

[ssu]

Likely the Flynn departure was an important watershed. Yet still some remnants of controversial initiatives of the Russophiles was going around:

A week before Michael T. Flynn resigned as national security adviser, a sealed proposal was hand-delivered to his office, outlining a way for President Trump to lift sanctions against Russia.

Mr. Flynn is gone, having been caught lying about his own discussion of sanctions with the Russian ambassador. But the proposal, a peace plan for Ukraine and Russia, remains, along with those pushing it: Michael D. Cohen, the president’s personal lawyer, who delivered the document; Felix H. Sater, a business associate who helped Mr. Trump scout deals in Russia; and a Ukrainian lawmaker trying to rise in a political opposition movement shaped in part by Mr. Trump’s former campaign manager Paul Manafort.

See Trump’s Russia scandal takes an unexpected turn

So the former adviser of the Pro-Russian Yanukovich, who even the rebels didn't want, still made the last ditch effort with Flynn. Likely this will be soon forgotten. Mattis, McMaster and above all, Tillerson are on a different stance from the appeasement-people.

Diplomats said they got the sense that there would be no radical shift in the U.S. stance toward Russia, despite Tillerson’s friendship with Vladimir Putin and Trump’s repeated praise of the Russian president.

One diplomat, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said the participants were encouraged when Tillerson said the administration believes that before it can consider any lifting sanctions against Russia, Moscow must meet its commitments to help end the fighting in the Russian-speaking, separatist region of eastern Ukraine.

See Rex Tillerson eases concerns over foreign policy under Trump

Tillerson with Lavrov, back to reality


That is likely the stance that everybody has in Trumps cabinet, perhaps possibly with the exception of Bannon. But likely Bannon isn't going to pick this fight with the others. He's making his mark just putting Trump to talk about Sweden.

On the "lets-appease-Russia-Russophiles", the FBI will likely roast them out discreetly. Assuming Trump himself doesn't do anything stupid that puts them (and the Republicans) in a position they cannot look away.

[C-Mag]

@ ssu

Is peace in the Ukraine bad ?

[ssu]

@ ssu

Is peace in the Ukraine bad ?

If Ukraine and Russia make peace, great!

But Russia will do that only if continuing the war isn't a better option for them. Now continuing the war is: they can pressure Ukraine if they want.

For the US to accept the Russian annexation of Crimea, in order to have closer ties to Russia for some vague promises to fight ISIS isn't.
It's utter insanity. And those insane ideas have past, actually. Thank God.

Appeasement, or the carrot or nothing -approach doesn't work with Russians.

[The Conservative]

@ ssu

Is peace in the Ukraine bad?

My two cents, it depends on what kind of peace we obtain, and who keeps ownership if the Ukraine. Russia has a history of not really like giving countries back that it takes through force.

[C-Mag]

@ ssu

Is peace in the Ukraine bad ?

If Ukraine and Russia make peace, great!

But Russia will do that only if continuing the war isn't a better option for them. Now continuing the war is: they can pressure Ukraine if they want.

For the US to accept the Russian annexation of Crimea, in order to have closer ties to Russia for some vague promises to fight ISIS isn't.
It's utter insanity. And those insane ideas have past, actually. Thank God.

Appeasement, or the carrot or nothing -approach doesn't work with Russians.

I'm not sure I care right now. This is a historical regional conflict that ebbs and flows through time. Even Dan Carlin recognized that places like the Ukraine and Poland sometimes exist, sometimes they don't.

I doubt Putin is going to pull a Stalin and starve 20 Million to death, so if there is a way to stop the war I am readily willing to listen. What I find crazy is the hype over Russia.

[ssu]

My two cents, it depends on what kind of peace we obtain, and who keeps ownership if the Ukraine. Russia has a history of not really like giving countries back that it takes through force.

Russia's objectives on the Ukraine issue:

1) A de facto acceptance of the annexation of Crimea. Like uh, well the Baltic States, to give an example. The US actually never didn't officially accept the annexation of the Baltic States by Stalin in the first place. So basically the US (and the West) can give in here By simply forgetting totally the whole annexation. A formal acceptance might be too big thing to ask, and definately isn't happening now.

2) That Ukraine stays under it's influence. That Ukraine has a Yanukovich-type leading Ukraine. Influencing Ukraine is the way here, because in invading especially Western Ukraine and you are definately bogged down in an insurgency. Far better to have Ukrainian politicians think that the West has deserted them and the only way for them is to submit to the Kremlin.

I'm not sure I care right now. This is a historical regional conflict that ebbs and flows through time. Even Dan Carlin recognized that places like the Ukraine and Poland sometimes exist, sometimes they don't.

I doubt Putin is going to pull a Stalin and starve 20 Million to death, so if there is a way to stop the war I am readily willing to listen. What I find crazy is the hype over Russia.

Ok. You don't give a fuck, fine, don't. But here these things are important.

And if you go on appeasing Putin for no obvious reason, then actually you aren't being indifferent, but making things worse. That's not the "I don't care" move.

Yet anyway, this has passed now. Trump himself has admitted that Crimea was taken by Russia and basically stands on the same line as Obama on the issue, that the US won't accept the annexation. Tillerson and the UN embassador, just as Spicer have all said it.

[C-Mag]

I'm not sure I care right now. This is a historical regional conflict that ebbs and flows through time. Even Dan Carlin recognized that places like the Ukraine and Poland sometimes exist, sometimes they don't.

I doubt Putin is going to pull a Stalin and starve 20 Million to death, so if there is a way to stop the war I am readily willing to listen. What I find crazy is the hype over Russia.

Ok. You don't give a fuck, fine, don't. But here these things are important.

And if you go on appeasing Putin for no obvious reason, then actually you aren't being indifferent, but making things worse. That's not the "I don't care" move.

Yet anyway, this has passed now. Trump himself has admitted that Crimea was taken by Russia and basically stands on the same line as Obama on the issue, that the US won't accept the annexation. Tillerson and the UN embassador, just as Spicer have all said it.

Here's the thing for the US.
Were not going to get the full story on this. BHO had the CIA fucking around in the Ukraine, presumably opposing Russia and I'm not down with that.

Right now Political Islam is causing more death and human suffering than anything else in the world. Putin isn't a favorable guy. But remember, 75 years ago we allied with Stalin to take out the larger threat. I guess that's how I see this now. Yes, there will be a price to pay. I realize that. But I also realize limitations.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Right now Political Islam is causing more death and human suffering than anything else in the world.

They can't even hold a candle to Big Ag, and food-packaging companies.

Next on the list would probably be various portions of the medical industry, and tobacco. I'd rank political Islam somewhere just above African warlords.

[C-Mag]

Right now Political Islam is causing more death and human suffering than anything else in the world.

They can't even hold a candle to Big Ag, and food-packaging companies.

Next on the list would probably be various portions of the medical industry, and tobacco. I'd rank political Islam somewhere just above African warlords.

IMO, it's foolish to equate Big Ag to Political Islam. As far as I know Big Ag is not tossing gays off roofs, burning people alive and stoning people, nor are they destroying our world heritage sites. Though if someone wanted to work hard enough they could make an argument.

Hey, I just read Trump Admin opened an investigation into fraud and medical theft by employees within the Veteran Administration. Apparantly the theft of Opioids and other medicine has skyrocketed in the last 10 years in the VA.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Right now Political Islam is causing more death and human suffering than anything else in the world.

They can't even hold a candle to Big Ag, and food-packaging companies.

Next on the list would probably be various portions of the medical industry, and tobacco. I'd rank political Islam somewhere just above African warlords.

IMO, it's foolish to equate Big Ag to Political Islam. As far as I know Big Ag is not tossing gays off roofs, burning people alive and stoning people, nor are they destroying our world heritage sites. Though if someone wanted to work hard enough they could make an argument.

Hey, I just read Trump Admin opened an investigation into fraud and medical theft by employees within the Veteran Administration. Apparantly the theft of Opioids and other medicine has skyrocketed in the last 10 years in the VA.

Tossing a gay off a roof = how many dead/dying/disabled people in hospitals? At least the gay guy died quick, too.