Europe, Boring Until it's Not

[JohnDonne]

The reason we give dignity to the dead is not because they are persons that care anymore, but because of the effect it has on the family, of society. A dead baby made into a machine puppet would negatively impact the society because the living would no longer have the comfort of believing that their own bodies and those of their loved ones are guaranteed to be respected.

And the default of being kept "alive" artificially, even if you will never wake up, is... comforting? To who? No one society should respect.

Which brings me to my next point:

I would argue Stephen Hawking's condition was such that if most people saw him on the street, without knowing who he was, they would shudder, in much the same way you shudder to imagine being kept on life support indefinitely, drooling and unable to communicate. To an able bodied and able minded person, it is difficult to imagine the appeal of such a situation. And yet we are surprised to find that in those whose situations seem most unbearable, the persons are in fact somehow able to find strength and dignity in through adversity. Stephen Hawking's life was valuable to himself and the world. How may a court or a doctor make the judgment that if this boy was conscious he would not want to keep going? Because they or you find such an existence disturbing?

Seriously, do you not realize just how visible the fact that you haven't bothered to read the details of the story is?

This isn't a case of schlerosis or cerebral palsy, so stop being a lazy twit. Google it. It shouldn't excatly be a high bar to expect you to read a overview of the case. Do. The. Research. I'd love to discuss, even admit fault, on the morality aspect of the story, but it requires you to have actually read about it. When you're talking out of your ass, not bothering to even read a single line on what the case is about, anything you say on this subject is just digital hot air.

Uh, I’m confused, I’ve already read multiple articles about it. Child is in a semi-vegetative state, unknown neurodegenerative disease, half his brain is mush, brain dead, wont wake up.

What am I missing, you red-cheeked pastry elf? How does this change the arguments I’ve been making?

[JohnDonne]

The reason we give dignity to the dead is not because they are persons that care anymore, but because of the effect it has on the family, of society. A dead baby made into a machine puppet would negatively impact the society because the living would no longer have the comfort of believing that their own bodies and those of their loved ones are guaranteed to be respected.

And the default of being kept "alive" artificially, even if you will never wake up, is... comforting? To who? No one society should respect.

The parents for starters. Perhaps they would like to take a wait and see approach in regards to whether a cure will develop, or whether their child’s condition will worsen. Seems reasonable and not unrespectable, I find the parent’s willingness to fight for their child eminently respectable.

[JohnDonne]

I haven't seen any scrutiny of the arguments whatsoever. I just see a bunch of moralizing.

Both arguments are essentially moralizing. But the side which insists it is absolutely right to the point of using the state to enforce its decision is also the side whose moralizing fails the test of even internal consistency.

One side is saying that, tragic as it is, a brain dead child's doctors have decided allowing the child to die is the best course of action, and the courts have backed up those doctors. That isn't moralizing. That is acknowledging that we are sometimes burdened with making decisions with terrible consequences.

The British state demanded this inappropriate burden for themselves though it would be zero trouble to pass the buck to the parents and the Italians.

Why do they demand to butt in to intimate family affairs when there is so much reason to leave them alone?

[BjornP]

Uh, I’m confused, I’ve already read multiple articles about it. Child is in a semi-vegetative state, unknown neurodegenerative disease, half his brain is mush, brain dead, wont wake up.

What am I missing, you red-cheeked pastry elf? How does this change the arguments I’ve been making?

You are saying the courts have made a mistake based on some imaginary future miracle cure. From a disease that's destroyed his brain. Hell, 200 years from now, even people shot through the head and declared dead, might be revived, so better put them on ice till then? Well... 400 years from now, it may be possible to dig up his bones and cast a genetically fine-tuned Ressurect spell on him AND his dead parents, uniting them in happiness and health. So, really, no need to make any decisions.

[Speaker to Animals]

Imagine the optics if the royal baby came down with a serious illness the NHS would otherwise use as a justification for for ed euthanasia (aka murder).

[BjornP]

The reason we give dignity to the dead is not because they are persons that care anymore, but because of the effect it has on the family, of society. A dead baby made into a machine puppet would negatively impact the society because the living would no longer have the comfort of believing that their own bodies and those of their loved ones are guaranteed to be respected.

And the default of being kept "alive" artificially, even if you will never wake up, is... comforting? To who? No one society should respect.

The parents for starters. Perhaps they would like to take a wait and see approach in regards to whether a cure will develop, or whether their child’s condition will worsen. Seems reasonable and not unrespectable, I find the parent’s willingness to fight for their child eminently respectable.

No, it does not seem reasonable and respectable, at least not when we're talking "waiting and seeing" for years. I find their willingness to fight, eminently tragic given what actually happened to their child.

[JohnDonne]

Uh, I’m confused, I’ve already read multiple articles about it. Child is in a semi-vegetative state, unknown neurodegenerative disease, half his brain is mush, brain dead, wont wake up.

What am I missing, you red-cheeked pastry elf? How does this change the arguments I’ve been making?

You are saying the courts have made a mistake based on some imaginary future miracle cure. From a disease that's destroyed his brain. Hell, 200 years from now, even people shot through the head and declared dead, might be revived, so better put them on ice till then? Well... 400 years from now, it may be possible to dig up his bones and cast a genetically fine-tuned Ressurect spell on him AND his dead parents, uniting them in happiness and health. So, really, no need to make any decisions.

That government doesn’t have any obligation to keep a brain dead child alive until a cure is found, in the same sense, it should be none of their business that the parents are willing to, absent compelling evidence of the child’s being made to suffer, which in this case is quite absent, unless you want to really want to stretch the definition of suffering and evidence.

[Okeefenokee]

You mean because the child is braindead, there "is no child left"? Well, I don't know, Nick.... Do you think it should be legal for the parents to hammer nails into the child's flesh, and use it an inanimate meat doll to re-live and replay moments of the child's history while it's kept alive by a machine? After all, if that's the parent's choice and it doesn't hurt the child... Both living, dying and DEAD children ought to have a right to be treated with dignity. They are persons, not things.

Fuck off, cunt.

Suffocating and starving a toddler isn't fucking dignified.

Not saying that starving a toddler who is already dying is dignified. But either fuck off, or tell me how you make this child's death more dignified, then? Come on, cunt, give us solutions. Simply let it off the life support, give it a last drop of the IV, and let nature take it's course? I have no objection to that. Keep it permanently on life support? No and fuck off, you degenerate baby-raper.

No.

I never invoked dignity. That was faggots like you who want to justify the murdering of a child while treating the parents like slaves to hide what you're really about.

It's by-the-numbers European totalitarianism setting the record straight on who owns who, and hiding like chicken shit cowards behind dignity.

[Speaker to Animals]

I am pissed that my grandfather had to risk his life to defeat the Third Reich only for these faggots to build it all over again on their own.

What was the fucking point?

[Okeefenokee]

One group of people think that the individual is the property of the state, and the state has the right and authority to determine the individual's life not worth living, and to then execute the individual.

The other group is saying we fucking destroyed the Third Reich for a God damned reason.

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