Trump Impeachment (Public Hearing)

[StCapps]

Canada's overton window is pretty much as small as it gets, and The Liberals can't be voted out, all the other alternatives are fake opposition, any party that isn't fake opposition are lucky if they get a single seat. Confederation is the problem, the reason the overton window is so small is because the Laurentian Elites have enough votes to ignore everyone else. As long as Confederation stands, that isn't going away, it has existed from the very beginning of the nation and isn't going to change in coming decades if Confederation still exists. Vive le Quebec libre!

The only way to get rid of the Liberals, is for Confederation to no longer exist, the Conservatives and NDP are just liberals using different labels, you can't vote them out.

Canada isn't Denmark, stop projecting. Confederation is a shotgun marriage holding back everyone who is in it, living in a shotgun marriage is no reason to defend it.

[clubgop]

Checks and balances are, of course, essential to securing that government doesn't turn tyrannical, but instead of the legislative branch voting on guilt or innocence, it just seems smarter to let the judicial branch be the one to make that decision. All other things considered, they are at least meant to be less partisan than party politics. From a democratic standpoint, I can see the reasoning, and you're guarenteed a better representation of the people's will by letting elected representatives vote on impeachment. Which is why I think I understand why a 5-4 SC decision would lead to more of a war than a 60% vs 40% vote in Congress. Is it because the people would feel more betrayed by what's essentially the highest, legal authority in the land declaring their vote and say invalid?

Well yes but remember federal judges can be impeached also. It makes little to no sense for the judicial branch to hold such power. Also if a person is ever removed and charged with a crime they have to go through the judicial system. That's too much power. To remove a President and hold his fate as a citizen, one or the other, not both.

Impeachment isn't a legal proceeding, oh sure they try to give it that veener but it is a political one. I need and want the Supreme court as far removed from politics as I can get it.

[BjornP]

Canada's overton window is pretty much as small as it gets, and The Liberals can't be voted out, all the other alternatives are fake opposition, any party that isn't fake opposition are lucky if they get a single seat. Confederation is the problem, the reason the overton window is so small is because the Laurentian Elites have enough votes to ignore everyone else. As long as Confederation stands, that isn't going away, it has existed from the very beginning of the nation and isn't going to change in coming decades if Confederation still exists. Vive le Quebec libre!

The only way to get rid of the Liberals, is for Confederation to no longer exist, the Conservatives and NDP are just liberals using different labels, you can't vote them out.

Canada isn't Denmark, stop projecting.

No projection here. The present is not the future, and especially not eternity. That something in Canada has existed since "the very beginning" of its existence, isn't really much of a counterargument since is such a young country. Canada doesn't need to be, or even become, Denmark at any point in order for things to change. If the only way for things to change for you is to change away from a Confederation, then that can happen under the right circumstances. Up to you to find out what those are and make them happen. You can't be the only one with your complaints, after all.

And unless you want to dismantle what little you have left of Canadian liberty, why would you "get rid of" the Liberals? What sort of liberty is there in denying others theirs? There are good, democratic and freedom-loving ways to undermine and take political power away from those you disagree with. If you can't persuade others your ideas are worthwhile, then the only weapon you'll have is to be and become a strong, centralized state... doesn't sound like an improvement, especially from one claiming to look up to American ideals about liberty.

[BjornP]

Well yes but remember federal judges can be impeached also. It makes little to no sense for the judicial branch to hold such power. Also if a person is ever removed and charged with a crime they have to go through the judicial system. That's too much power. To remove a President and hold his fate as a citizen, one or the other, not both.

Impeachment isn't a legal proceeding, oh sure they try to give it that veener but it is a political one. I need and want the Supreme court as far removed from politics as I can get it.

Hmm, didn't know that federal judges could also be impeached. My argument then was admittedly too based on only a superficial impression of impeachment and the way you make the seperation of powers work in the US. Not saying I'd neccesarily therefore agree with you if I understood the process better, I just can't formulate a good reply either way.

[StCapps]

Canada's overton window is pretty much as small as it gets, and The Liberals can't be voted out, all the other alternatives are fake opposition, any party that isn't fake opposition are lucky if they get a single seat. Confederation is the problem, the reason the overton window is so small is because the Laurentian Elites have enough votes to ignore everyone else. As long as Confederation stands, that isn't going away, it has existed from the very beginning of the nation and isn't going to change in coming decades if Confederation still exists. Vive le Quebec libre!

The only way to get rid of the Liberals, is for Confederation to no longer exist, the Conservatives and NDP are just liberals using different labels, you can't vote them out.

Canada isn't Denmark, stop projecting.

No projection here. The present is not the future, and especially not eternity. That something in Canada has existed since "the very beginning" of its existence, isn't really much of a counterargument since is such a young country. Canada doesn't need to be, or even become, Denmark at any point in order for things to change. If the only way for things to change for you is to change away from a Confederation, then that can happen under the right circumstances. Up to you to find out what those are and make them happen. You can't be the only one with your complaints, after all.

And unless you want to dismantle what little you have left of Canadian liberty, why would you "get rid of" the Liberals? What sort of liberty is there in denying others theirs? There are good, democratic and freedom-loving ways to undermine and take political power away from those you disagree with. If you can't persuade others your ideas are worthwhile, then the only weapon you'll have is to be and become a strong, centralized state... doesn't sound like an improvement, especially from one claiming to look up to American ideals about liberty.

Confederation is the problem, it's not going to change. The Clarity Act provides.

The Liberals do not protect Canadian liberty you fucking moron, getting rid of them would increase liberty, not decrease it. The weapon is to do away with Confederation, and become a less centralized state, that is an improvement. Ontario would be a helluva a lot better without Quebec and vice versa. It is the Ontario+Quebec factor that makes change impossible, separate them, and change is possible.

[The Conservative]

Checks and balances are, of course, essential to securing that government doesn't turn tyrannical, but instead of the legislative branch voting on guilt or innocence, it just seems smarter to let the judicial branch be the one to make that decision. All other things considered, they are at least meant to be less partisan than party politics. From a democratic standpoint, I can see the reasoning, and you're guarenteed a better representation of the people's will by letting elected representatives vote on impeachment. Which is why I think I understand why a 5-4 SC decision would lead to more of a war than a 60% vs 40% vote in Congress. Is it because the people would feel more betrayed by what's essentially the highest, legal authority in the land declaring their vote and say invalid?

Well yes but remember federal judges can be impeached also. It makes little to no sense for the judicial branch to hold such power. Also if a person is ever removed and charged with a crime they have to go through the judicial system. That's too much power. To remove a President and hold his fate as a citizen, one or the other, not both.

Impeachment isn't a legal proceeding, oh sure they try to give it that veener but it is a political one. I need and want the Supreme court as far removed from politics as I can get it.

The problem with federal judges separated from politics as far as possible, is it's impossible.

Unless you create a Judge Dredd, every human has a bias. Political or otherwise.

[StCapps]

The problem with federal judges separated from politics as far as possible, is it's impossible.

At least someone around here doesn't live in a dream world.

[BjornP]

The Liberals do not protect Canadian liberty you fucking moron, getting rid of them would increase liberty, not decrease it. The weapon is to do away with Confederation, and become a less centralized state, that is an improvement. Ontario would be a helluva a lot better without Quebec and vice versa. It is the Ontario+Quebec factor that makes change impossible, separate them, and change is possible.

Nowhere at all do I write that "The Liberals protect Canadian liberty", Capps. I write that if you want to the Liberals to lose power, you should (want to) do so in way that doesn't turn your country into an even more liberty-hating country. If by "getting rid of" a political party you mean using law and government power against them because they hold opinions you don't agree with, that obviously cannot lead to greater liberty, only to less.

[StCapps]

The Liberals do not protect Canadian liberty you fucking moron, getting rid of them would increase liberty, not decrease it. The weapon is to do away with Confederation, and become a less centralized state, that is an improvement. Ontario would be a helluva a lot better without Quebec and vice versa. It is the Ontario+Quebec factor that makes change impossible, separate them, and change is possible.

Nowhere at all do I write that "The Liberals protect Canadian liberty", Capps. I write that if you want to the Liberals to lose power, you should (want to) do so in way that doesn't turn your country into an even more liberty-hating country. If by "getting rid of" a political party you mean using law and government power against them because they hold opinions you don't agree with, that obviously cannot lead to greater liberty, only to less.

Right, and the way to turn Ontario into a more liberty loving place, is by the shotgun marriage with Quebec and the rest of Canada ending. There can be no Liberal Party of Canada without a Canada, The Clarity Act provides. Dealing with Ontario Liberals is bad enough, getting rid of the LPC would be a major improvement, and the only way to do that is to do away with Confederation. The Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal Iron Triangle is what prevents the Liberals from being voted out, break up that Iron Triangle, and their source of power evaporates.

Vive le Quebec libre! I don't have to do a thing, it will happen all on it's own, regardless of what I do. It's inevitable.

[clubgop]

Well yes but remember federal judges can be impeached also. It makes little to no sense for the judicial branch to hold such power. Also if a person is ever removed and charged with a crime they have to go through the judicial system. That's too much power. To remove a President and hold his fate as a citizen, one or the other, not both.

Impeachment isn't a legal proceeding, oh sure they try to give it that veener but it is a political one. I need and want the Supreme court as far removed from politics as I can get it.

Hmm, didn't know that federal judges could also be impeached. My argument then was admittedly too based on only a superficial impression of impeachment and the way you make the seperation of powers work in the US. Not saying I'd neccesarily therefore agree with you if I understood the process better, I just can't formulate a good reply either way.

Impeachment of a Federal judge is the only impeachment that has been successful. 8 times Congress has removed a judge.
Important to know the ways the branches can check each other. Congress has impeachment and the purse strings. President has veto and appoints federal judges. And the Supreme court can declare all acts of legislation or executive orders unconstitutional.