It's Happening.

[TheReal_ND]

I blame Reagan, followed by Clinton. Tax cuts got us here, that and "Free" Trade & deregulation.

Nah, you can actually trace the turning point of the American republic, from the height of the postwar boom and associated confidence, to where it is now, in terms of the lack of confidence in the governing authorities and associated tinfoil, down to the exact grid reference and in fact minute;

LZ Albany 13°35′43″N 107°42′55″E, 1315 hrs, 17 November 1965, Ia Drang Valley, Republic of Vietnam.

The little lie, which led to the big lie, which destroyed the American public's confidence in the government for all time.

Everything is before and after; the 2nd Battalion, 7th Cavalry Regiment was ambushed by the NVA 33rd and 66th Regiments, in the shadow of the Chu Pong Massif, and the lie which the American government told to cover it up, that was the lie, which broke America.

It all comes down to the folly of escalation in Vietnam, and the lies the government told to make that happen, and the first and most significant of those lies, they told on the day after the 2/7th Cav was annihilated in the Ia Drang, which they in fact denied even happened.

Says the future Asian country.

Nice try kiddo

[Smitty-48]

Says the future Asian country.

Nice try kiddo

Hell, I'd take them North Vietnamese soldiers as my countrymen over you, kiddo, any day of the week, bet that.

The North Vietnamese were the hardcore of the hardcore, whereas you, not so much, Hal Moore & Co. I got respect for, but that ain't you, son.

Whatever America it was which spawned the likes of Hal Moore & Co., was surely no more, by the time you ran down the crack of yo momma's ass, that much is clear.

[Smitty-48]

But again, more to the point, you don't end up as the sort of country that would even spawn a pathetic wretch like Nukedog, if they don't lie to get America deep into Vietnam with 500,000 troops, and that all starts in one place, with one lie; in the shadow of the Chu Pong Massif.

Escalation in Vietnam was the big lie which broke America, and the little lie at LZ Albany in the Ia Drang, is the lie that made that happen.

If they had told the truth about what happened at LZ Albany, Johnson never would have been able to escalate in Vietnam, public opinion was teetering on the knife edge at the time, LZ Albany would have tipped it over into "get out now", but that's exactly why they lied, and in fact denied that it even happened at all.

Right at the critical moment when they are trying to close the deal on escalation and a "great victory" in the Ia Drang to support that, an entire American battalion gets ambushed and wiped out in the jungle....

....American government; "What battalion? Never happened..."

Even when Mel Gibson did his little movie there, When We Were Soldiers, he ends the script at the end of the day on the 16th of November, he never did When We Were Soldiers II, to tell the story of what happened the very next day.

Everybody knows who Lt. Colonel Hal Moore was, but nobody has ever heard of Lt. Colonel Robert McDade; for a reason.

Number of Americans killed in Vietnam before 15 November 1965; 1,394

Number of Americans killed after; 56,826.

"...to the men of the 2nd of the 7th who fought here and did a good job, you gentlemen who were not here can be proud of them, they died a dirty death, but they fought like hell, and I'm proud of them" ~ Lt. Larry Gwin, Company A, 2nd Battalion, 7th Cavalry Regiment

[Viktorthepirate]

There needs to be a major correction, but it's more fundamental than inflation. The Collapse will trigger political change, hopefully for the better. We need to chase the Collectivists off, and reign in the aristocrats.

The last time I can recall a great power in the industrial era facing hyper inflation and economic collapse, it definitely didn't end with anything good.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Source needed. Official body count is still around 1,000.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Ia_Drang

[Smitty-48]

There needs to be a major correction, but it's more fundamental than inflation. The Collapse will trigger political change, hopefully for the better. We need to chase the Collectivists off, and reign in the aristocrats.

The last time I can recall a great power in the industrial era facing hyper inflation and economic collapse, it definitely didn't end with anything good.

I guess you can't recall the hyperinflation and economic collapse in the Soviet Union in 1991-92 which brought the Communists down in Moscow, can't say I miss them, but then again, you probably don't recall the Cold War neither.

[Viktorthepirate]

There needs to be a major correction, but it's more fundamental than inflation. The Collapse will trigger political change, hopefully for the better. We need to chase the Collectivists off, and reign in the aristocrats.

The last time I can recall a great power in the industrial era facing hyper inflation and economic collapse, it definitely didn't end with anything good.

I guess you can't recall the hyperinflation and economic collapse in the Soviet Union in 1991-92 which brought the Communists down in Moscow, can't say I miss them, but then again, you probably don't recall the Cold War neither.

Ha ha ha snap. Good one, that's what I get for going Godwin.

[Smitty-48]

Source needed. Official body count is still around 1,000.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Ia_Drang

1,000 is not the Ameican KIA in the Ia Drang, 1,000 is the full strength of both battalions before the battle, by 16 November, the 1st Battalion at LZ X-Ray, that's Hal Moore's battalion, had lost 79 killed. The whole movie When We Were Soldiers, that's 79 killed, which the Army claimed as a "great victory".

But the next day, the 2nd Battalion was sent in to police the LZ at X-Ray, but instead of flying out of X-Ray, the CO decided they would walk 3 kilometers to another LZ, Albany, and fly out from there, but the thing was, the NVA was still on the mountain, and they were watching, and when they saw them walking, they got out ahead of them and laid an ambush, which, from your own citation above;

"LZ Albany: 155 killed, 124 wounded and 4 Missing. "

That's a 400 man battalion, 283 casualties, which is 75% attrition, point blank ambush, which the US Army at the time, denied even happened, and in fact the Army continued to refuse to acknowledge that that battle did happen, until the 1990's.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Source needed. Official body count is still around 1,000.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Ia_Drang

1,000 is not the Ameican KIA in the Ia Drang, 1,000 is the full strength of both battalions before the battle, by 16 November, the 1st Battalion at LZ X-Ray, that's Hal Moore's battalion, had lost 79 killed. The whole movie When We Were Soldiers, that's 79 killed, which the Army claimed as a "great victory".

But the next day, the 2nd Battalion was sent in to police the LZ at X-Ray, but instead of flying out of X-Ray, the CO decided they would walk 3 kilometers to another LZ, Albany, and fly out from there, but the thing was, the NVA was still on the mountain, and they were watching, and when they saw them walking, they got out ahead of them and laid an ambush, which, from your own citation above;

"LZ Albany: 155 killed, 124 wounded and 4 Missing. "

That's a 400 man battalion, 283 casualties, which is 75% attrition, point blank ambush, which the US Army at the time, denied even happened, and in fact the Army continued to refuse to acknowledge that that battle did happen, until the 1990's.

Fine, but 1 - you are bad at math.
2 - that’s not 50,000 dead in a day.

[Smitty-48]

That's not what I said, what I said was; the US escalated in Vietnam, on the claim of total victory in the Ia Drang, if the United States hadn't escalated after the Ia Drang, only 1,394 would have been killed in Vietnam, but since they did escalate, all on the basis of the Ia Drang, another 56,894 ended up being killed.

Anyways, after they got ambushed LZ Albany, the one company which escaped, they formed a perimeter, the NVA was right on top of them so they couldn't get out, they just had to hunker down for the night, but when they did, they could hear the NVA going around executing the American wounded, they hear the NVA talking, then they hear an American scream "NO! NO!" then BAM!, then they heard the NVA laughing. And this went on all night, but there was nothing they could do.

Again, the US Army denied that this battle even happened, in order to ensure that public opinion didn't swing against escalation, and they lied about it, for another 30 years, and this is the government which them boys were out there dying for, "NO! NO!" BAM!