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[SuburbanFarmer]

They are both utopian projects. Neither is big on nationalism, both are globalizing enterprises. Both place economics above all else. Libertarians equate liberty, their most cherished concept, with money, and marxists use the wealth disparity between differing social classes as the basis of all conflict in the world. Money is the prime driver for both ideologies. They have different solutions (No State vs. All State), but they share many core ideas about the world. Anyway, that is my opinion on the matter.

All ideologies are 'globalizing enterprises'. That's no different between any of them - they inherently 'need' to spread everywhere, lest they be seen as imperfect by their adherents. And money does make the world go round, no matter what you believe in.

I'm curious what ideology you've rejected Libertarianism/Conservatism in favor of then...

I'm not denying that money and economics are crucial, but both Libertarianism and Marxism are reductive in that they look at one component of human life, the economic one and hardly examine the other pieces. There are other things to consider.

That's not any definition of Libertarianism that I'm familiar with... It generally revolves around personal freedom, not an economic system. It's an ideal, more like Conservatism than anything else - without the corporate bukkake.

[heydaralon]

How theories start and how they are practiced, and who they are practiced by are very different things.

[Martin Hash]

Libertarianism works great until someone wants your stuff.

[jbird4049]

This is where conservatives repeatedly lose.
They play the short game.

The left knows they can lose today's election because they're taking over the school system and the media. When the current batch of dinosaurs die off there will only be one narrative, and it will be a double shot of Berkeley style education and MSNBC reporting.

Gotta play the long game to win, and conservatives just don't do it.
(So you better hold on to the military, guys, it's all you got left)

Politically the Republican Party, and their financial owners have been playing the long game. There has been a consistent effort to push the country economically to the right, and of using social issues to both cover over this fact, and of attracting social conservatives votes and generally support. This has been going on since the 1970s.

Also, considering getting most liberals to act together is like herding cats, and considering conservatives don't have that problem, at least to the level of cats, the Republican Party does have it easier in consistent planning, and action.

[PartyOf5]

Libertarianism works great until someone wants your stuff.

Sounds kinda like the Democrats right now. They love the idea of spreading the wealth until it's their wealth being spread around.

[Martin Hash]

The distinction between wealth redistribution as maintenance, verses redistributing out of envy, is a subtle one. You can tell which-is-which by who is intended to be redistributed to & who is redistributed from.

From Middle Class to Rich: Conservatives
From Middle Class to Poor: Progressives
From Rich to Middle Class: Liberals
From nobody to nobody: Libertarians (as long as that lasts.)

[jbird4049]

The distinction between wealth redistribution as maintenance, verses redistributing out of envy, is a subtle one. You can tell which-is-which by who is intended to be redistributed to & who is redistributed from.

From Middle Class to Rich: Conservatives
From Middle Class to Poor: Progressives
From Rich to Middle Class: Liberals
From nobody to nobody: Libertarians (as long as that lasts.)

Modern conservative economics seems to have devolved into the Market as God, or maybe better said the Market as God's Will. Because it does representative God, or at least an individual's personal virtue, ones place in society using wealth is true and good indication. It's has an almost Lutheran quality of predestination with the poor as reprobates damned to economic Hell, and the righteous select in economic Paradise, and I guess the Middle, and Working Classes in Purgatory.

I think I am like with heydaraion, I just cannot accept Marxist Communism, and American Libertarianism, as they reduce all of life to a simplied to absurdity economic framework. And when you say that that economic system cannot work too many respond that the economic theory cannot fail, it can only be failed.

[heydaralon]

What is really weird about economics is that many ideas we take as givens are actually derivative from religious ideas. Robert Nelson has written several awesome books about this. In the 19th century, British free trade advocates used to use religious arguments from the Bible against tariffs. They cited the idea that trade brings people closer together, and thus allows the gospel to spread, as intended by God. Nowadays, we talk about comparative advantage. Anyway, this is not something that is exclusively done by the right or left. Both are influenced by religious ideas. I'm not even trashing any particular economic policy. I'm not economically literate enough to do that. Its just interesting to see where ideas come from.

[jbird4049]

What is really weird about economics is that many ideas we take as givens are actually derivative from religious ideas...

In the past religion was explicitly used to explain why some succeeded and many did not. Just look at today's faith as economic success by some, often sleazy, churches. I think that this idea of virtue equals health, happiness, and economic success is assumed unconsciously by many.

[Martin Hash]

Modern conservative economics seems to have devolved into the Market as God, or maybe better said the Market as God's Will. Because it does representative God, or at least an individual's personal virtue, ones place in society using wealth is true and good indication. It's has an almost Lutheran quality of predestination with the poor as reprobates damned to economic Hell, and the righteous select in economic Paradise, and I guess the Middle, and Working Classes in Purgatory.

That's a nice bit. Gold star.