The pitchforks are coming... for us plutocrats

[Speaker to Animals]

It makes me appreciate why the Roman Senate felt the necessity to beat the Grachii brothers to death.

Or Marius. Or Cataline.

[Ex-California]

I've come to the conclusion that Bernie Sanders was an accidental candidate and is disingenuous with all his Socialist crap. A lot of folks believe he was rolled out by the Dems in the early primary to bolster the far left support and then lose early to Hillary. I believe this too.

But I no longer believe Bernie is little more than a whore of a politician who found a niche and keeps up the same old song and dance, but he's really just getting rich off the system. Nuke, I think you have a word for guys like that.

He was a scam candidate the entire time. I think he was in on the rigging of the democratic primaries.

Yeah, that's what I'm seeing. He rolled over far too easily and jumped on the Hillary bandwagon, got his new vaca home. Evicted his followers and went back to the Congress. Did you see how passionate he was at attacking Trumps nominees ?

If he really believed was he says he believes and used half that gusto against Hilldawg, he would have won the Dem nomination in a walk. Hillary was an awful candidate and vulnerable in so many ways. But Bernie is a cuck and just rolled over.

I'm coming to this view as well, and I was an ardent Sanders supporter in the beginning. He had always preached his views because I knew his name from my Pacifica Radio days, but Im still dubious about the amount of push he got from supposed grass roots and internet support

[Ex-California]

It makes me appreciate why the Roman Senate felt the necessity to beat the Grachii brothers to death.

Or Marius. Or Cataline.

The Senate were the ones that needed purging then. Just like ours does now.

Trump's speech yesterday could have been spoken by either Gracchi, Marius, Catalina, or even Caesar.

[Speaker to Animals]

Lol, no.

[Smitty-48]

Here is a Caius Marius speech from 106 BC, if you are want to compare;


"I AM sensible, my fellow citizens, that the eyes of all men are turned upon me; that the just and good favor me, as my services are beneficial to the state, but that the nobility seek occasion to attack me. I must therefore use the greater exertion, that you may not be deceived in me, and that their views may be rendered abortive. I have led such a life, indeed, from my boyhood to the present hour, that I am familiar with every kind of toil and danger; and that exertion which, before your kindness to me, I practised gratuitously, it is not my intention to relax after having received my reward. For those who have pretended to be men of worth only to secure their election, it may be difficult to conduct themselves properly in office; but to me, who has passed my whole life in the most honorable occupations, to act well has from habit become nature.

You have commanded me to carry on the war against Jugurtha —a commission at which the nobility are highly offended. Consider with yourselves, I pray you, whether it would be a change for the better, if you were to send to this, or to any ‘other such appointment, one of yonder crowd of nobles—a man of ancient family, of innumerable statues, and of no military experience—in order forsooth, that in so important an office, and being ignorant of everything connected with it, he may exhibit hurry and trepidation, and select one of the people to instruct him in his duty. For so it generally happens, that he whom you have chosen to direct, seeks another to direct him. I know some, my fellow citizens, who, after they have been elected consuls, have begun to read the acts of their ancestors, and the military precepts of the Greeks—persons who invert the order of things; for tho to discharge the duties of the office is posterior, in point of time, to election, it is, in reality and practical importance, prior to it.

Compare now, my fellow citizens, me, who am a new man, with those haughty nobles. What they have but heard or read, I have witnessed or performed. What they have learned from books, I have acquired in the field; and whether deeds or words are of greater estimation, it is for you to consider. They despise my humbleness of birth; I contemn their imbecility. My condition is made an objection to me; their misconduct is a reproach to them. The circumstance of birth, indeed, I consider as one and the same to all, but think that he who best exerts himself is the noblest. And could it be inquired of the fathers of Albinus and Bestia, whether they would rather be the parents of them or of me, what do you suppose that they would answer, but that they would wish the most deserving to be their offspring? If the patricians justly despise me, let them also despise their own ancestors, whose nobility, like mine, had its origin in merit. They envy me the honor that I have received; let them also envy me the toils, the abstinence, and the perils, by which I obtained that honor. But they, men eaten up with pride, live as if they disdained all the distinctions that you can bestow, and yet sue for those distinctions as if they had lived so as to merit them. Yet those are assuredly deceived, who expect to enjoy, at the same time, things so incompatible as the pleasures of indolence and the rewards of honorable exertion.

When they speak before you, or in the senate, they occupy the greatest part of their orations in extolling their ancestors; for they suppose that, by recounting the heroic deeds of their forefathers, they render themselves more illustrious. But the reverse of this is the case; for the more glorious were the lives of their ancestors, the more scandalous is their own inaction. The truth, indeed, is plainly this: that the glory of ancestors sheds a light on their posterity, which suffers neither their virtues nor their vices to be concealed. Of this light, my fellow citizens, I have no share; but I have what confers much more distinction—the power of relating my own actions. Consider, then, how unreasonable they are; what they claim to themselves for the merit of others, they will not grant to me for my own, alleging, forsooth, that I have no statues, and that my distinction is newly acquired; but it is surely better to have acquired such distinction myself than to bring disgrace on that received from others.

I am not ignorant that, if they were inclined to reply to me, they would make an abundant display of eloquent and artful language. Yet, since they attack both you and myself, on occasion of the great favor which you have conferred upon me, I did not think proper to be silent before them, lest any one should construe my forbearance into a consciousness of demerit. As for myself, indeed, nothing that is said of me, I feel assured, can do me injury; for what is true, must of necessity speak in my favor; what is false, my life and character will refute. But since your judgment, in bestowing on me so distinguished an honor and so important a trust, is called in question, consider, I beseech you, again and again, whether you are likely to repent of what you have done. I can not, to raise your confidence in me, boast of the statues, or triumphs, or consulships of my ancestors; but, if it be thought necessary, I can show you spears, a banner, caparisons for horses, and other military rewards, besides the scars of wounds on my breast. These are my statues; this is my nobility; honors, not left like theirs, by inheritance, but acquired amid innumerable toils and dangers.

My speech, they say, is inelegant; but that I have ever thought of little importance. Worth sufficiently displays itself; it is for my detractors to use studied language, that they may palliate base conduct by plausible words. Nor have I learned Greek; for I had no wish to acquire a tongue that adds nothing to the valor of those who teach it. But I have gained other accomplishments, such as are of the utmost benefit to a state: I have learned to strike down an enemy; to be vigilant at my post; to fear nothing but dishonor; to bear cold and heat with equal endurance; to sleep on the ground; and to sustain at the same time hunger and fatigue. And with such rules of conduct I shall stimulate my soldiers, not treating them with rigor and myself with indulgence, nor making their toils my glory. Such a mode of commanding is at once useful to the State, and becoming to a citizen. For to coerce your troops with severity, while you yourself live at ease, is to be a tyrant, not a general.

It was by conduct such as this, my fellow citizens, that your ancestors made themselves and the republic renowned. Our nobility, relying on their forefathers’ merits, tho totally different from them in conduct, disparage us who emulate their virtues and demand of you every public honor, as due, not to their personal merit, but to their high rank. Arrogant pretenders, and utterly unreasonable! For tho their ancestors left them all that was at their disposal—their riches, their statues, and their glorious names—they left them not, nor could leave them, their virtue; which alone, of all their possessions, could neither be communicated nor received.

They reproach me as being mean, and of unpolished manners, because, forsooth, I have but little skill in arranging an entertainment, and keep no actor, nor give my cook higher wages than my steward—all which charges I must, indeed, acknowledge to be just; for I learned from my father, and other venerable characters, that vain indulgences belong to women, and labor to men; that glory, rather than wealth, should be the object of the virtuous; and that arms and armor, not household furniture, are marks of honor. But let the nobility, if they please, pursue what is delightful and dear to them; let them devote themselves to licentiousness and luxury; let them pass their age as they have passed their youth, in revelry and feasting, the slaves of gluttony and debauchery; but let them leave the toil and dust of the field, and other such matters, to us, to whom they are more grateful than banquets. This, however, they will not do; for when these most infamous of men have disgraced themselves by every species of turpitude, they proceed to claim the distinctions due to the most honorable. Thus it most unjustly happens that luxury and indolence, the most disgraceful of vices, are harmless to those who indulge in them, and fatal only to the innocent commonwealth.

As I have now replied to my calumniators, as far as my own character required, tho not so fully as their flagitiousness deserved, I shall add a few more words on the state of public affairs. In the first place, my fellow citizens, be of good courage with regard to Numidia; for all that hitherto protected Jugurtha, avarice, inexperience, and arrogance, you have entirely removed. There is an army in it, too, which is well acquainted with the country, tho, assuredly, more brave than fortunate; for a great part of it has been destroyed by the avarice or rashness of its commanders. Such of you, then, as are of military age, cooperate with me, and support the cause of your country; and let no discouragement, from the ill fortune of others, or the arrogance of the late commanders, affect any one of you. I myself shall be with you, both on the march and in the battle; both to direct your movements and to share your dangers. I shall treat you and myself on every occasion alike; and, doubtless, with the aid of the gods, all good things, victory, spoil, and glory, are ready to our hands, tho, even if they were doubtful or distant, it would still become every able citizen to act in defense of his country. For no man, by slothful timidity, has escaped the lot of mortals; nor has any parent wished for his children that they might live forever, but rather that they might act in life with virtue and honor. I would add more, my fellow citizens, if words could give courage to the faint-hearted; to the brave I think that I have said enough."

[Ex-California]

I would have supported Marius in a second

[Ex-California]

Lol, no.

Are you a rich oligarch or a rank and file citizen?

Populism benefits you. Being against it is the same as the retards who are mad Trump says America First

[Okeefenokee]

I don't know who I would have supported, but being a property owning veteran, the minute he walked into Rome with an army of slaves and set them loose, I'd have been making my way to Sulla, if not there before.

[Martin Hash]

Globalism is a Marxist trope, the opposite of Nationalism ("America first"). Marxists believe all people everywhere should be united under a common standard of equality. They are very evangelical about it.

[Speaker to Animals]

Lol, no.

Are you a rich oligarch or a rank and file citizen?

Populism benefits you. Being against it is the same as the retards who are mad Trump says America First

That's not what I am talking about.

There exists a tendency within a civilization towards decay, sort of akin to cancer in an individual organism. Guys like the Gracchi brothers represented an iteration of that cancer in antiquity.

This is what I mean by saying that a lot of what we call "left" (and I think the entire idea of there being a spectrum is bullshit, but I use the words because they are so commonly understood) really amounts to hatred and jealousy. What Gracchi brothers wanted to do was to take from others to redistribute amongst themselves. They argued that one group of Roman citizens was the oppressive enemy that had to be destroyed.

Catalina was even more overt about it.

While we often compare Trump to Crassus in terms of background, he really is much more like an Augustus Caesar in terms of policy with respect to this dynamic. Augustus rejected the class warfare and simply endeavored to put the Roman people first wherever possible. For example, his reforms targeted the bloated Roman bureaucracy that was dominated by corrupt insiders. He completely purged it and streamlined it. He advanced building projects to modernize the Roman infrastructure. His moral reforms were meant to stymie the degeneracy that had descended upon the Roman people.

He did what he did for the people to a large extent, but he coupled that with a return to traditional Roman values and stamping out the moral decline that was the topic of much discussion in the years preceding the civil wars. You can read Cicero's accounts of these discussions as well. Much of what they faced is what we face today.

This idea that the left is for the "people" and the right is for the "oligarchs" is utter nonsense promulgated by the far left. It's a bogus narrative like pretty much all the other lies they spread. The so-called left is, and always has been, for moral degeneracy and social rot, all fueled by an intense hatred for those who have more wealth, power, social connections, whatever. It's the result of jealousy and covetousness at the the social level.

Hence why the moral foundation of our current iteration of western civilization includes:

“I am the Lord thy God, thou shalt not have any strange gods before Me.”
This commandment forbids idolatry, the worship of false gods and goddesses, and it excludes polytheism, the belief in many gods, insisting instead on monotheism, the belief in one God. This commandment forbids making golden calves, building temples to Isis, and worshipping statues of Caesar, for example.

“Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.”
The faithful are required to honor the name of God. It makes sense that if you’re to love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength, then you’re naturally to respect the name of God with equal passion and vigor.

“Honor thy father and mother.”
This commandment obliges the faithful to show respect for their parents — as children and adults. Children must obey their parents, and adults must respect and see to the care of their parents, when they become old and infirm.

“Thou shalt not kill.”
The better translation from the Hebrew would be “Thou shalt not murder” — a subtle distinction but an important one to the Church. Killing an innocent person is considered murder. Killing an unjust aggressor to preserve your own life is still killing, but it isn’t considered murder or immoral.

“Thou shalt not commit adultery.”
The sixth and ninth commandments honor human sexuality. This commandment forbids the actual, physical act of having immoral sexual activity, specifically adultery, which is sex with someone else’s spouse or a spouse cheating on their partner. This commandment also includes fornication, which is sex between unmarried people, prostitution, pornography, homosexual activity, masturbation, group sex, rape, incest, pedophilia, bestiality, and necrophilia.

“Thou shalt not steal.”
The seventh and tenth commandments focus on respecting and honoring the possessions of others. This commandment forbids the act of taking someone else’s property. The Catholic Church believes that this commandment also denounces cheating people of their money or property, depriving workers of their just wage, or not giving employers a full day’s work for a full day’s pay. Embezzlement, fraud, tax evasion, and vandalism are all considered extensions of violations of the Seventh Commandment.

“Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.”
The Eighth Commandment condemns lying. Because God is regarded as the author of all truth, the Church believes that humans are obligated to honor the truth. The most obvious way to fulfill this commandment is not to lie — intentionally deceive another by speaking a falsehood. So a good Catholic is who you want to buy a used car from.

“Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s wife.”
The Ninth Commandment forbids the intentional desire and longing for immoral sexuality. To sin in the heart, Jesus says, is to lust after a woman or a man in your heart with the desire and will to have immoral sex with them. Just as human life is a gift from God and needs to be respected, defended, and protected, so, too, is human sexuality. Catholicism regards human sexuality as a divine gift, so it’s considered sacred in the proper context — marriage.

“Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s goods.”
The Tenth Commandment forbids the wanting to or taking someone else’s property. Along with the Seventh Commandment, this commandment condemns theft and the feelings of envy, greed, and jealousy in reaction to what other people have.

The so-called left opposes ALL OF THEM.

If you were to codify the Roman moral system in those days, the Gracchi brothers, I am certain, opposed them all. This is not a valid ideology. This is not a valid set of ideals. These people will rationalize what they are doing, and some of them can write some good polemic in defense of it, but fundamentally, we are talking about a kind of mind rot that, at the social level, is like a social cancer that will inevitably destroy a civilization if not treated.


We need a "left" more like Augustus and a hell of a lot less like Gracchi Brothers.